All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:10 Volund okay so let's see.... new structure: gamesrc/codesuite/commands/<model folders> with the cmd<whatever>.py being in the respective model folders. no more 'lib' folder unless things get wacky. simple is better than complicated.
01:10 MistDude joined #evennia
01:19 Volund now if I could figure out how to make github's repo ditch copies of files I don't want anymore. :|
01:25 Kelketek git rm
01:52 Volund yeah
01:52 I just figured that out
01:52 git rm, then git commit (I hate doing this on the command line), then git push origin master --force
01:53 anyways whew
01:53 check this out Kelky :D
01:53 I has new organization style
01:54 and I'm wondering why PyCharm didn't do that properly :|
01:56 I'm trying to reorganize everything before I start rewriting. So Kelk I had an idea.
01:59 as it turns out I don't actually -need- to rewire the Channels a lot. They work best as they already are. I can make changes to how they -appear- and will do so, but I don't need to make sweeping changes to how they are used.
02:00 I've decided that Channels should be OOC tools, and that the way MCM is using Some channels as IC 'radio' channels is actually stupid.
02:00 What is good instead for IC 'messenging' is the use of things like my +radio system and the group system.
02:02 BUT
02:02 it would be cool if I could do something like 'route all channel messages to one window even if you're logged onto multiple windows'
02:03 that's probably not so simple though
02:10 * Volund shakes kelketek! who has gone quiet
02:10 * Kelketek agh!
02:11 Kelketek Volund: Suggestion
02:11 Volund hmmmm?
02:12 Kelketek Don't fork Evennia and make it the base of your game repository. Create a separate repository in gamesrc and just do all your commits there. As you currently have it, if you make a change to Evennia itself and then make a pull request, unless you do some very clever git cherry-picking, your pull request will also include all of your game specific code.
02:13 Also I think you could find a way to do that channel thing with the Typeclass system and a bit of cleverness.
02:13 Volund I'm trying to NOT make any changes to Evennia itself, heh. :o
02:13 ooh?
02:14 Kelketek Yeah. If a user ran a command to mark a certain session as the one they want messages on, you could store that somewhere and check it when doing the channel messages.
02:18 Volund as long as there's a command to 'list all your sessions' then it would work
02:18 and there is
02:19 so wait. I can make a github repo inside a github repo?
02:19 * Volund notes, this is his first serious use of version control software/repositories
02:20 Volund most of my experience with them has been 'downloading stuff' and 'using it as a remote backup for my work'
02:30 Kelketek Volund: You can make a git repo within a git repo, sure.
02:30 Volund huuuuuh.
02:31 Kelketek Just don't commit the inner repo to the outer one.
02:35 Volund I have no idea how that works. @_@
02:36 Kelketek In gamesrc, make a folder.
02:36 Within the folder, do git init .
02:37 Add some files in it, commit.
02:37 cd out of the folder into its parent
02:37 do git status
02:37 You'll see the folder in the 'untracked files' list
02:37 Don't add it
02:37 You're good to go
02:37 Volund ah. okay lemme see how to do that. if I can get that to cooperate with Pycharm that'd be great
02:53 alexandra joined #evennia
02:56 * Volund ponders what to call this instead of 'codesuite' :o
02:56 sasha_rose Well what is the purpose of it, Volund?
02:58 Volund It's hard to put to words. But I'm trying to build a complete 'MUSH-like setup' bunch of code for Evennia. It's supposed to resemble the PennMUSH games that I've been working on and have all of the features that people have gotten used to having on those games I'm managing, but I'd like to 'take it to the next level' once I get good enough. Like making use of the web administration features, weird OOB stuff, etc.
02:59 And on top of that, I want to probably use this for Exalted MUSH and other projects one day.
02:59 sasha_rose EveMush?
02:59 Volund ...
02:59 ... not a bad idea
02:59 not bad at all. :o
02:59 okay I'll go with that.
02:59 * Volund can always go with something else later if necessary
03:00 hugs, thank you :D
03:00 sasha_rose Your welcome.
03:01 Honestly I auto-gen my names.
03:04 Volund pffffffft
03:06 sasha_rose The idea behind that name was because that you were having evennia stuff built like PennMush.
03:07 Volund: is there a difference between RhostMush and PennMush?
03:09 Volund yes
03:09 I'll explain in a moment
03:14 PennMUSH is a branch of TinyMUSH that was entirely redone over many years, so much that eventually all of the original code was redone and replaced and it retains similarities more or less only in design and presentation/command structure etc. It has left TinyMUSH so far behind that it's insane. Their idea was 'rebuild TinyMUSH from the ground up and keep what's good and introduce a lot of other stuff, try and maintain backward co
03:14 mpatability for a lot of stuff wherever possible'
03:15 RhostMUSH is a second attempt to do the same thing. The maintainer of that project took the latest version of TinyMUSH and tried to rewire it to have a much different approach towards accomplishing the same thing. Basically 'trying to backport Penn's advancements into something more resembling the original server code'
03:16 RhostMUSH is a lot less user-friendly but has lots cool and nifty features, different ways of handling channels, admin permissions, and etc. MOST of the softcode written for Penn will run in Rhost, though it may need tweaking.
03:17 if you -really know what you're doing,- Rhost is probably a bit more powerful for several kinds of projects.
03:17 On the other hand, it doesn't have everything Penn does - such as attribute tree support. Although recent changes made it able to vaguely mimic the behavior of attribute trees.
03:18 * sasha_rose nods. "Ok, thanks. I was retrying to remember stuff about RhostMush and Pennmush, I have I think both copies, but there are probably old now with Mike doing stuff with Penn. I don't really follow Rhost."
03:19 Volund MY penn code requires an overhaul to run in Rhost, but the project is one that would just take a few days or a week or two
03:19 But that's because I heavily rely on a lot of Penn-only stuff. :|
03:20 * sasha_rose nods.
03:48 Volund tada
03:48 I got it working :D
03:48 now I have a local repo for official evennia and my own. the only file that doesn't exist there is
03:49 and I'm learning how to git :D
03:50 sasha_rose I suggest if you want a gui and ease of use. netbeans or pycharms.
03:50 Volund I'm using PyCharm yes
03:50 though I still need to use the git commands here and there
03:50 * sasha_rose nods.
03:50 Volund it seems to not deal well with 'I deleted a folder'
03:50 PyCharm, I mean
03:51 and there. now I have a proper layout for my stuff that's a LITTLE more in line with what I had in mind...
03:52 sasha_rose Well, I create a folder and a folder inside of that because I've messed up my linux hard drive because of it. I don't know enough to find and delete all the github stuff on it.
03:52 ex: eve> (git clone) eveninia
03:52 Volund aha
03:53 sasha_rose So when you delete it you can delete the main folder and still have everything open to do a new repo/account.
03:54 Volund heh. I'm really just interested in keeping backups of my stuff
03:54 so that I can easily recover if anything stupid happens
03:55 sasha_rose well I had help create some backup and restore scripts.... except that they are on my linux hard drive that isn't in my computer right now.
04:05 All I have to sayy is wow Volund nice work.
04:05 Kelketek, how's the brisket?
04:05 Volund ehh? @_@ It's not that good. It feels kind of clunky. I'm still learning the ropes
04:05 Kelketek sasha_rose: It was wonderful.
04:05 Volund also I have to utterly rewrite a lot of that now to work with the new structure
04:05 sasha_rose Well probably better than what I could have done.
04:06 hehe
04:06 Kelketek, I food coma-ed out hard.
04:06 Kelketek Me too. I had a long nap.
04:07 sasha_rose Here's the play-by-play of how it happened. I got up by 3pm, ate at 4, fell asleep at 5, woke up at 7.
04:19 * Volund also ponders the most elegant way to handle error stuff. I did the try/except thing for my last rummage around but I think I might be better off taking a different approach.
04:20 Volund how does this kind of logic sound for 'trap errors'?
04:21 proceed, newname, errmsg = group.can_rename("new name") | if not proceed: self.caller.msg(errmsg) | return
04:21 I'm not sure if that's better or not than the dozens of try excepts
04:22 but following it would be group.key = newname
04:22 (since it has to trim and otherwise standardize the name)
04:24 this way I can break up the code a bit more between 'check input' and 'do stuff'
04:25 what do you think, Kelketek?
04:25 * sasha_rose nods.
04:27 Kelketek Volund: You should do some of both, but the nuance of whether using ifs or trys to check something is learned over time. This instance seems fine for an if.
04:29 Volund D: I keep trying to catch myself ahead of time, but have to come to terms with the fact that I really have to start at Level 1 here and will make tons of stupid choices. D:
04:29 bah.
04:30 what I'd want to do in this case is 'make sure the input is good,' 'make sure no other groups have that name,' and etc. and return a 'cleaned up' version of whatever was put in (for instance, trimmed of leading and following spaces)
04:30 Kelketek Volund: Do you want to do those checks in the naming function, or in the function that calls the naming function?
04:30 Volund uhhhhh
04:31 exactly.
04:31 Kelketek If you want to do it in the function that calls the naming function, will you have multiple places you need to call the naming function? Will they all need the same checks?
04:32 Volund the checks should always be the same in THIS case no matter how they're called, since groups should always have unique names with some cleanup.
04:32 I'm still trying to figure out the 'best place to put things'
04:32 but if I might ever re-use this, I should probably put it on the group model :o
04:32 is my logic, anyways
04:33 I'm also going ga-ga over Methods right now
04:33 it's such an AWESOME concept for me, who's come from a MUSHcode background
04:33 I -love- being able to define how my data behaves.
04:34 the simple beauty of being able to do group.add_member(<character>,<rank>) instead of like...
04:34 * sasha_rose thinks why does pumpkin squares with frosting have to be soooo good.
04:35 Volund &MEMBERS %q<gid1>=setunion(get(%q<gid1>/MEMBERS​),%q<t1objid>);&D`GROUP`%q<gid1>`RANK %q<t1>=u(u(gso)/FUN`GETCONF,%q<gid1>,STARTRANK)
04:35 I'm sure you see why I'm loving methods.
04:35 just from that.
04:39 and through reverse lookups/related names, being able to do stuff like character.groups.all() instead of filterbool(#lambda/match(get(\%0/MEMBERS​),%q<t1objid>),u(u(gso)/FUN`LISTGROUPS))
04:39 and etc
04:41 sasha_rose oobs are a lot better than C programming Volund, I think.
04:41 Volund way better. and MUShcode is not C. @_@
04:41 sasha_rose yeah, softcoding then.
04:46 Volund MUSHcode isn't really -meant- for things like this. I had to come up with a lot of ways to handle things like 'large lists of related data' that has native support in stuff like Django
04:47 it's full of limits and gotchas and you have to be REALLY REALLY GOOD to do something like a Guild/Group system in MUSHcode. If it's gonna be any good, anyways
04:47 * sasha_rose nods.
04:47 sasha_rose With anything. :)
04:48 Volund well yes
04:48 but I mean, I've already recreated MUCH of my group system functionality in Evennia here using Django. Even though I'm a total n00b at this language. Granted, it probably helps that I have a solid design built on top of five failures.
04:49 that group system in MUSHcode is the culmination of years of work and trying new ways to do something and overcome dozens of limitations that... NO LONGER APPLY
04:50 I'm not really sure what that says about me as a coder, or the tools, or what. :|
04:50 but I, personally, am awed at how easy this is.
04:51 :D
05:36 let's see... *disables all extra commands, examines his MuxCommand and shall create the new EveCommand from it.
05:49 sasha_rose I think that I have enough variables to make a pytable. :)
05:49 or a form.
05:51 Volund awesome
06:08 sasha_rose Volund, did you happen to make a djagno model for test of exalted? I'm going to attempt to do a white wolf display of the 5 'stars'
06:10 Volund no, I've been focusing on the data structures that will let me do stuff like that.
06:11 sasha_rose This was like a while ago.
06:14 That's pretty much what I'm trying to create. would that be a django model or a pytable?
06:14 Volund uhhhhhhh
06:15 the Django model stores the data.
06:15 I'm not sure what pytable is, need to check
06:15 but data storage is separate from PRESENTING that data
06:16 that's what -I've- got going on though :D
06:16 (in MUSHcode)
06:18 sasha_rose This comes to mind when I'm looking at the evennia docs.[…]a/wiki/New-Models
06:27 Volund yeah. Do you know what it means? I can try and explain it of not
06:27 do you know what SQL is? etc

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