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| 12:53 | zanoi | good morning everyone |
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| 13:11 | willkg | hi! |
| 13:11 | afk for coffee and clothes and (possibly) to take the trash out. | |
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| 14:54 | willkg | deardiary: finished up extension stuff yesterday. so i'm back go gstreamer things today. |
| 14:54 | zanoi: hi! | |
| 14:55 | i think i'm going to do a half-day today, too. baby has a doctor's appointment with shots... so i'm theorizing that's going to go poorly and suck up the other half of my day. | |
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| 15:29 | z3p | deardiary: reading e-mail |
| 15:41 | willkg | z3p: i just sent a bug your way. i made it a p1, but it only happens when miro starts up without a database (i.e. a fresh install, or someone just deleted their database, ...). |
| 15:42 | z3p | willkg: a unicode error? |
| 15:42 | willkg | z3p: no... a KeyError relating to amazon stores that are but aren't in the tablist or something like that. |
| 15:42 | z3p | willkg: huh, okay |
| 15:43 | willkg | it's exciting. i'm sure you'll get great pleasure plumbing its divine depths of puzzlement. |
| 15:43 | paulproteus | deardiary: Helping Rob set up my Apache patches for measuring server effort. |
| 15:46 | willkg | deardiary: on second thought, i'm going to make a deardiary aggregator first. |
| 15:48 | janetPCF | willkg: pre-shot baby tylonel (or the baby advil) |
| 15:48 | willkg | janetPCF: tempting. |
| 15:50 | z3p | willkg: huh, I thought I fixed this already, but apparently not so much |
| 15:50 | deardiary: #15963 | |
| 15:50 | willkg | z3p: was my analysis right? i didn't spend a ton of time on it. |
| 15:51 | z3p | willkg: it looks like you're right that it's at least related to the new guide stuff |
| 15:51 | * willkg | nods. |
| 15:51 | willkg | ok. |
| 15:51 | z3p | willkg: but that's just from looking at my log file |
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| 17:26 | willkg | paulproteus, z3p: how's this: http://planet.getmiro.com/ |
| 17:27 | i'm not wild about the dates, but i don't feel like fiddling with them right now. | |
| 17:27 | paulproteus | I think that sounds good to me. |
| 17:27 | Ben suggested once a week is good. I think once a day is okay. | |
| 17:27 | z3p | paulproteus: looks good |
| 17:27 | willkg | i think i prefer once a day. once a week doesn't really help us keep on the same page with sufficient frequency. |
| 17:28 | paulproteus | I agree; I like daily more. |
| 17:30 | willkg | deardiary: wrote a script to generate an atom feed of a day's worth of deardiary stuff. switched the planet to pull from that. |
| 17:38 | paulproteus | I hate it when you're trying to be flaky with someone, but then they don't answer, so you can't tell them you're being a flake. |
| 17:38 | willkg | glee1: this is wrong: https://git.participatorycultu[…]b553d1e67e9b26bc2 |
| 17:38 | glee1: please read through http://develop.participatorycu[…]lizedStringsGuide | |
| 17:39 | glee1: those should be localized strings. | |
| 17:39 | glee1: and they can't be composed like you're doing. | |
| 17:39 | glee1: and it's totally bad to translate variable values. | |
| 17:43 | this goes for everyone, too. i keep seeing bad localized string stuff in the code. | |
| 17:44 | afk for coffee. | |
| 17:48 | kcw | deardiary: tackling the growing mass of bugs on my bugzilla list today; waiting for OS X to finish installing so that I can push View. |
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| 18:59 | bendk | hi all |
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| 20:36 | paulproteus | ajonas: We were going to talk at 3:30. |
| 20:36 | I need 3 or so minutesto fix some network problem here. | |
| 20:37 | ajonas | cool |
| 20:37 | we can do skype or phone | |
| 20:37 | paulproteus | But first, http://bugzilla.pculture.org/s[…]_bug.cgi?id=15757 -- seems like the next step is to fix bulk edit in some general way so that it loads reliably? |
| 20:37 | That is, I should fix http://bugzilla.pculture.org/s[…]_bug.cgi?id=13607 first and re-evaluate? | |
| 20:38 | ajonas | paulproteus: yeah, agreed |
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| 20:42 | paulproteus | rehi! |
| 20:43 | Okay, so I know you have to go at 4. | |
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| 20:44 | ajonas | paulproteus: yeah |
| 20:44 | paulproteus | I'm trying to estimate the total hours of perfect, focused time it will take to do this all. |
| 20:45 | The P2s, I estimate 12 hours. Sadly, since I'm a programmer, you're supposed to double my estimates. | |
| 20:46 | ajonas | noted |
| 20:46 | paulproteus | The P1s except Paypal, which is an integration nightmare, I think 6. |
| 20:46 | I guess Paypal is worth six to eight to twelve, given my experience so far. | |
| 20:46 | ajonas | yikes |
| 20:46 | paulproteus | I'm definitely progressing, but there's a whole lot to keep track of. |
| 20:47 | ajonas | paulproteus: what's the sticking point there? can we change the way we're doing things to make it less intensive? |
| 20:47 | paulproteus | There's a few things. One hard part is that we have to test with the Paypal sandbox, but it's broken in Firefox for me. |
| 20:48 | See also https://www.x.com/thread/45655 | |
| 20:48 | ajonas | paulproteus: so you can't tell if problems are ours or theirs? |
| 20:48 | paulproteus | Well, I *know* there are problems on their end, and they make it hard to develop. |
| 20:48 | It might work on Chromium; I haven't checked yet. I just stabbed myself on that a bit on Friday, and then ran out of time. | |
| 20:49 | ajonas | paulproteus: i think it would make sense to see what you can do in chrome |
| 20:49 | paulproteus | I can probably get around that, but it adds to my frustrated feeling. |
| 20:49 | Otherwise, I think that once we set the right settings at Paypal, it won't be super hard to get things going. | |
| 20:50 | It's way slower than just modifying how localtv works, though, because I have to fiddle with things manually to experiment, and then I have to click on buttons I made, and go all the way through a transaction to find out what happens at the end. | |
| 20:50 | ajonas | paulproteus: *nod* |
| 20:50 | paulproteus | With things like video service APIs, I can interact with them programmatically, and with changes to just localtv, those are super easy; write a test, make it pass, next. |
| 20:51 | ajonas | paulproteus: i definitely think if firefox is the problem but not in the live version, you should just use chrome |
| 20:51 | paulproteus | As for if we can make it smoother... well, one thing we could do is actually ignore the validation of the free trial. |
| 20:51 | ajonas: Yeah, agreed re: just use chrome | |
| 20:51 | ajonas | paulproteus: are these tests that margarita could take over? |
| 20:51 | paulproteus | Sadly no, because they affect the code I write too heavily. |
| 20:51 | What I mean about not validating is this: | |
| 20:52 | ajonas | paulproteus: thanks, was just about to ask that. |
| 20:52 | paulproteus | Right now the experience is supposed to be that we send you to paypal, you sign up for a recurring payment, and Paypal sends you back to us. |
| 20:52 | Now, what I'd *like* to do is validate that we have successfully started a recurring payment with a free trial period. | |
| 20:52 | That requires knowing immediately if the paypal stuff worked. | |
| 20:53 | Paypal will tell us eventually, usually within five seconds of the user returning back to the Miro Community site. | |
| 20:53 | We can do any of the following three things. | |
| 20:53 | ajonas | where "paypal stuff worked" means, the info they gave us was good? |
| 20:53 | paulproteus | 1. (What I'm trying to do) get Paypal to tell us immediately if the user successfully started the recurring payment. |
| 20:53 | Yeah, exactly. | |
| 20:54 | This turns out to be a massive pain because it's not the default way paypal works, but it *is* supported, but it requires a bunch of fiddling and testing. | |
| 20:54 | ajonas | paulproteus: if this is the big hang up, i definitely think it's not needed |
| 20:54 | paulproteus: let's have it tell us w/i say a day if it *didn't* work | |
| 20:54 | paulproteus | 2. We could show the user a throbber saying, "Waiting for paypal's acknowledgement..." but we would have no idea how long we'd have to show that. |
| 20:54 | Yeah, so 3) we could just check a day later. | |
| 20:54 | ajonas | paulproteus: absolutely, let's do 3 if that seems like it would work |
| 20:55 | i'm not stressed about people having access for 24 hours | |
| 20:55 | though i'd certainly prefer people not abuse it | |
| 20:55 | paulproteus | This would actually spill over into all the payment handling, actually. |
| 20:55 | Yeah, I don't think it'll be abused. | |
| 20:55 | What's the point of extra features for twenty-four hours? | |
| 20:55 | ajonas | *nod8 |
| 20:56 | ok, so for all payment we check to make sure it didn't work 24 hrs later and if not, we shut down | |
| 20:56 | yes? | |
| 20:56 | paulproteus | Do we shut down the entire site, or just revert the last tier transition? |
| 20:56 | ajonas | paulproteus: we move down to basic, if the payment doesn't work |
| 20:56 | paulproteus | No matter what they started on? |
| 20:56 | That's okay with me, I just wanted to make sure I understood. | |
| 20:57 | ajonas | paulproteus: you think there should be a grace period? |
| 20:57 | paulproteus | It makes sense; it's probably clear evidence of abuse (that, or it's evidence that we have a bug). |
| 20:57 | ajonas | paulproteus: i think that sounds easiest. once tiers have shipped, we can try to tweak that to be "warn people and give them x days" |
| 20:57 | paulproteus | Okay, so I like this, and I can probably run with it. We ought to write some stuff that logs (to a file, so we can revert it) the changes we make when downgrading someone, just in case it needs to be reverted. |
| 20:58 | By "We ought to" I mean "I ought to". | |
| 20:58 | ajonas | paulproteus: yes, most should be alreayd supported except making admins admins again and re-approving videos that had been live |
| 20:58 | paulproteus | So I think that narrows the Paypal down to a reasonably-confident 4-6 hour estimation, with way smaller chance of massive time blow-up. Which I like. |
| 20:59 | ajonas | paulproteus: great. i don't want to mess up folks sites over a simple mistake (like expiring credit card) but this should provide a balance and we can fine tune later |
| 20:59 | paulproteus | Yeah, I like that. |
| 20:59 | So as far as priorities, I would actually kind of like to just work on the P2s and nail them, since I think I can do that pretty quickly (by the end of Thu, say) , and then go through the P1s and be "done" (pending review and deployment headaches) by next Wed. | |
| 21:00 | Or even switching that, so long as I get to close some non-Paypal P1s soon. | |
| 21:00 | I hate not closing bugs, you see. | |
| 21:00 | ajonas | paulproteus: totally |
| 21:00 | paulproteus | (-: |
| 21:00 | ajonas | paulproteus: i have to go, but that sounds good |
| 21:01 | also look out for places where you can turn over testing to margarita | |
| 21:01 | paulproteus | Right! Definitely. |
| 21:01 | ajonas | paulproteus: i'm going to email her and cc you with stuff i see |
| 21:01 | paulproteus | Do you have 1-2 more min, perhaps? |
| 21:01 | ajonas | ish. go for it. |
| 21:01 | paulproteus | http://bugzilla.pculture.org/s[…]_bug.cgi?id=15253 -- sure, I can change the *default*, but some sites already use a widget that's configured to say "example.com" |
| 21:01 | And I wonder what we should do about that. | |
| 21:02 | What, if anything. | |
| 21:03 | Also, with long *.mirocommunity.org subdomains, the name of the site may get ugly-ly long. | |
| 21:03 | Like "watch videos on | |
| 21:03 | aodl.mirocommunity.org" | |
| 21:03 | That would be okay, but it will be, "Watch videos on | |
| 21:03 | somethinglongreallyawesomethough. | |
| 21:03 | mirocommunity.org" | |
| 21:03 | for a really long one. | |
| 21:04 | ajonas | can you put that one off and i'll take a look and think about it? |
| 21:04 | paulproteus | If you don't answer here I'll just toss this discussion into the ticket (-: |
| 21:04 | b | |
| 21:04 | ajonas | yes, please do |
| 21:04 | ok, i'm off. thanks! | |
| 21:04 | paulproteus | Thanks to you too! |
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