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Time Nick Message
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03:05 libman GitHub doesn't recognize those two aforementioned Mlanguages, ex. https://api.github.com/search/[…]=language:mythryl
03:07 And neither does Wikipedia...
03:12 There's a FreeBSD and OpenBSD lang/myrddin ports, which is some sign of life...
03:21 I think being included in ports of at least one Wikipedia-worthy copyfree OS should be a prerequisite for including a language in my comparison matrix.
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04:39 libman Added some preliminary notes on copyfreedom in the OCaml family: https://github.com/lbmn/libman[…]iole.md#ml-family
04:54 Let me know if there's another ML-related package ecosystem (other than Smackage and OPAM).  GitHub project license types for Standard-ML, Elm, UrWeb, Idris, Agda, and Oz are dominated by "Unknown"s.
05:03 Since many copyfree languages can be grouped into families (mainly either List or ML), I think doing so would make for a more readable list.
05:04 https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim is three stars away from 4000.  ;P
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15:20 libman apotheon: what do you think of the name OS/NAP (can be pronounced "oh snap") for a hypothetical pure-copyfree distro project?
15:21 It's also a throw-back to Ye Olde Real Operating Systems like OS/400, OS/2, etc.
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16:16 apotheon libman: Sure.
20:29 libman At first glance, Myrddin binaries are a bit on the heavy side -  https://github.com/lbmn/crap/t[…]/bench/helloWorld
21:09 apotheon Holy shit, compilation is fast there.
21:09 Holy shit, Go launch time is slow.
22:24 libman It's not a good benchmark, just to identify which languages produce unreasonably bloated native binaries.
22:31 The only observation so far is that D, C#, and Go have a binary / dependency obecity problem, and stripping / compression isn't a good solution.  Haskell, Standard-ML, and Chicken seem reasonably lean now, and Nim never had that problem.
23:02 apotheon I don't see C++ in there.  I wonder how it compares.
23:26 libman That is just a quick draft.  I'll expand it later.  It will go into the "lean" column of the copyfree proglang comparison matrix.
23:28 The UPX experiment was just an ad-hoc idea and should be removed.  Binaries should be `shh`ed to a barebones box to show they can work without runtime.
23:30 Any binary can be compressed, with much decompression overhead time.  It doesn't solve the fat binary problem.
23:34 I think Nim is the only language that will get straight A's on this matrix: module ecosystem copyfreedom, no unfree deps / tooling, portability, lean binaries, safety features, and performance.
23:37 Also, instead of popularity I'll measure "grass-roots community size": IRC and mailing list / web forum activity especially.

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