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Time Nick Message
00:08 damnedscholar joined #evennia
00:12 vincent-lg1 joined #evennia
00:12 vincent-lg1 BigJMoney: out of the box, Evennia doesn't really have an abstract layer for mob
00:13 I dislike the name, I find it disrespectful :D . Mobs are characters, after all. So that's what they are in Evennia. You can create characters that are just NPC
00:14 vincent-lg that being said, if you need to automate their behavior a bit more, that's definitely a good question. Evennia has been opposed to softcoding for a long time. I've recently added a contrib to link arbitrary Python code (that you enter in game) to arbitrary object actions... like if you talk to a character (that can include a player, if you want to laugh a bit). Or if you enter into a room. Or take an exit. Or whatever. You just add your lines of code
00:14 add dialogues to NPC for instance. And more complex actions, of course
00:14 BigJMoney yeah I don't care what they're called.  I probably wouldn't go with mob since I'm going to typeclass and want to pick something more descriptive
00:15 vincent-lg but if I understood your question right... why a new class? Why not characters?
00:15 there might be some justification in using a new typeclass, but after some thinking I don't see any :D
00:15 BigJMoney it's not about automating them (at this point anyway) but about giving a builder (or some other level of developer) the ability to create an NPC, then spawn multiple instances based on the archetype
00:16 Without having to hard code a typeclass for each archetype (which there could be hundreds)
00:17 from what I recall just think about how maybe CircleMUD did it?  I only worked on MUDs a little and don't know for sure what codebase it was back then
00:18 I guess the best way to explain this is with a super simple example
00:18 vincent-lg BigJMoney: I see what you mean. Have you looked at the system of prototypes in Evennia?
00:18 BigJMoney I @create a goblin and give it some attributes
00:18 Now I want to make 20 of them
00:18 just like it
00:19 vincent-lg prototypes in Evennia can be used to create characters, rooms, objects or whatever you want (in my case, vehicles)
00:19 trust me, forget about CircleMUD :D
00:20 try to forget about any other engines if possible. Evennia usually has a way to do things that come into conflict with what we, as users of other engines, take from granted
00:20 BigJMoney yeah I hope I don't sound like I care at all about any other MUD engine since I'm barely familiar with them.  I just want to figure out the best way to solve that problem
00:20 vincent-lg yep
00:20 your example exactly fit the definition of prototypes
00:20 you would set a prototype goblin
00:20 BigJMoney thanks I missed them
00:20 vincent-lg and then could spawn has many as you like
00:20 BigJMoney looking in docs now
00:20 vincent-lg you could do the same with rooms or objects (though spawning a room into a room may be a bit tricky :D )
00:21 BigJMoney hehe
00:21 vincent-lg absolutely no problem. I don't mean to sound too offensive either. It's just that I've realized my previous knowledge of other engines made the task harder to grasp some Evennia features because I was still holding to my previous knowledge, if you see what I mean
00:22 BigJMoney oh yeah imprinting is a bitch ;)
00:22 vincent-lg the problem I have with Evennia prototypes is that, out of the box, they must be defined in code. And I don't want to write my prototypes in my code because i will share it and I want non developers to build on my game. So I'm writing a very simple layer on top of the prototype system
00:22 (I think Griatch is doing something like that, will be available in the next version)
00:23 one thing for instance Evennia does and that looked backward to me is that there's no commands for every possible type of data
00:24 like olist oset odel ofind, rlist rset rstat redit rfind and so on
00:25 BigJMoney yeah i kind of remember those
00:25 Volund joined #evennia
00:25 Volund grah
00:25 vincent-lg Evennia's is designed around commands to do a task... so you have @name to change the name (of a room, a character, a vehicle or whatever). @desc to describe (same thing, a room, a character, a vehicle, an object). And so on. For me it was really disconcerting
00:25 now I'm working with the system rather than building against it but I spent months wondering why it was done this way D:
00:25 haha we woke Volund up!
00:27 the fact that I'm still able to find job opportunities although I've been looking all month in the same area is pretty neat
00:27 grungies1138 joined #evennia
00:29 BigJMoney yeah prototyping is definitely closer to ease the pain; at least on the spawning side (yay!)
00:30 I still would like to solve the problem of builders not being able to declare prototypes
00:30 so hopefully Griatch's work on next release will cover that :finger's crossed:
00:31 vincent-lg yeah
00:31 otherwise if you're impatient you can do it
00:31 I've created typeclasses for prototypes, because I want my builders to use @name, @desc and... I have set any command beginning by a @ to be a set command
00:31 BigJMoney Yeah with new commands.  the way it is now though is more than suitable for an alpha stage
00:31 vincent-lg so @speed vehicle to change the speed of a vehicle... or a horse :P
00:32 so I've set up rptotoypes in typeclasses and have modified the spawner
00:32 but there are other ways to do that. You could store your prototypes in a script for instance, and have your builders edit it. I need independent objects for quick modification, but that's not necessarily the best approach
00:32 BigJMoney (by Alpha I mean my MUD not Evennia btw)
00:33 vincent-lg lol
00:33 my game is in pre-pre-pre-unstable-alpha :D but I don't work on it very often.
00:34 BigJMoney ok so the bit in the getting started about pypiwin32 seems maybe incomplete?
00:34 It links to here https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pypiwin32
00:34 but no instructions on what to do with a .whl file in windows
00:34 MadMerlyn joined #evennia
00:34 BigJMoney i did find another site that has an installer
00:35 https://sourceforge.net/projec[…]in32/Build%20220/
00:35 vincent-lg huuu
00:35 I don't know. What is it for?
00:35 I didn't even know it existed
00:35 BigJMoney It's listed as a prereq for Windows with Evennia
00:35 vincent-lg ho
00:35 pywin32
00:35 BigJMoney I haven't used it yet and Evennia installed fine though :shrugs:
00:36 vincent-lg yeah. It doesn't seem there's an official repository somehow
00:36 MadMerlyn wut up
00:36 vincent-lg better ask Google and hope it's not a virus :P
00:36 MadMerlyn pywin32 shouldn't be a prereq?
00:36 BigJMoney sourceforge should be ok
00:36 vincent-lg yeah I am on Windows too and didn't install it
00:36 I used pywin32 a few years ago to create Windows service
00:36 I guess that's why they offer that possibility
00:36 MadMerlyn pywin32 are libraries for doing stuff like making python run as a windows service and provides hooks for writing to the event viewer etc.
00:37 vincent-lg but well, I'm always opening the Windows console so I don't mind
00:37 well honestly I never needed it
00:37 it's not installed on my little laptop
00:37 MadMerlyn really though I'd recommend using anaconda for your python install and using pywin off the conda repo
00:37 vincent-lg so a prerep, I'd say no, it shouldn't be listed as such
00:37 an addition? Why not
00:38 depending of what you want to do
00:38 MadMerlyn I used pywin32 extensively when I wrote that backup client+server for work
00:38 vincent-lg I guess it's particularly useful if you want to use your Windows machine as a server for Evennia though
00:38 MadMerlyn since both server and endpoints are windows
00:39 vincent-lg because yes it will allow you better control over the operating system. As it is my Windows laptop is my test machine. I'm pushing stable code to my dev server, which is on Linux
00:39 MadMerlyn running it as a service certainly works better than relying on the task scheduler to kick it off, yes
00:39 vincent-lg yep
00:40 it can be configured easily to start with the system with various privileges as well. I don't start it with the system, I start it when I want to test my code :P . But again that's a use case
00:40 BigJMoney so...should I edit the wiki page to link to the sourceforge repository with the installer binary instead?
00:40 MadMerlyn noooo
00:41 vincent-lg okay for the little story
00:41 I sent a job application to a company working on mobile games
00:41 and... I felt a bit weird to do it but... I mentioned Evennia :D well I mentioned my experience with text-based game :D
00:41 MadMerlyn you know Unity? That's what everyone seems to want nowadays (at least until the rush to make VR titles dies down)
00:41 vincent-lg not sure they will be very impressed. On the other hand, so many things we consider modern are really based on standards that have been discovered decades, centuries ago
00:42 BigJMoney: I would recommend updating the wiki page yep
00:42 MadMerlyn centuries? I think that's a bit of a stretch, unless you're getting philosophical about math or something
00:42 vincent-lg better not to have broken links if we can help it
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00:42 streetwitch Hi
00:42 MadMerlyn I wouldn't link binaries though
00:43 I would just say pywin32 and then provide refs pointing to the sourceforge landing page and maybe a code snippet for installing via conda or pip
00:43 vincent-lg MadMerlyn: no. I'm talking about story-telling, and character development
00:43 that's not new at all. In fact, even the type of media, that we believe to be so new (interactive story telling in games) is really old
00:43 BigJMoney So the plot thickens: pypiwin32-220-cp36-none-win32.whl is not a supported wheel on this platform.
00:43 actually tried c:\Users\John\Downloads\pywi​n32-220.win-amd64-py2.7.exe first
00:44 vincent-lg that's far-fetched, but you can come back to a few centuries BC to see the first rules we still use today without knowing it... most of us ignore them actually. It doesn't help
00:44 MadMerlyn Start>cmd>Run As Administrator> pip install pywin32
00:45 and honestly I'd wager you're running 32bit python and that's why you're getting the not support on platform error
00:45 vincent-lg lol
00:45 hi streetwitch
00:45 BigJMoney i installed 64 bit only
00:45 MadMerlyn also if you're running in a virtual env (which you really should with most python projects) make sure you activate it first
00:45 grab it off pip (though pip might be a few versions stale, like 218 or so)
00:45 vincent-lg I approve about the pyenv
00:45 streetwitch Vincent, people have been roleplaying that long?
00:46 vincent-lg it's powerful and I'm sorry I didn't find out about i beforehad
00:46 streetwitch: well, that's a funny question
00:46 MadMerlyn streetwitch roleplaying as a form of entertainment I think emerged in the late 70s, but story-telling has been around longer than writing :P
00:46 vincent-lg kids have been role-playing for as long as we can even remember right?
00:47 BigJMoney pip install pywin32 => "Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement pywin32 (from versions: ) No matching distribution found for pywin32"
00:47 vincent-lg but when I said interactive story telling, I thought more of theater, actually
00:47 BigJMoney run as admin from virtualenv
00:47 vincent-lg live TV is nothing interactive, after all. People usually believe games are the first form of interactive storytelling we, human beings, have had access too. It's not really true :D
00:47 streetwitch Oh ok
00:47 MadMerlyn ok let's talk about your python installation first
00:47 what/where did you install python?
00:48 did you just get the vanilla installer from the python site?
00:48 vincent-lg I don't know if you can have something fun like
00:48 a Python 32-bit on your system with a Python 64-bit in your Python environment
00:48 perhaps creates some conflict. Although really the pyenv should remain portable
00:49 streetwitch Vincent, could you get the recaptcha working?
00:49 vincent-lg streetwitch: so I've solved your problem with the CAPCHA
00:49 streetwitch Yay!
00:49 vincent-lg it wasn't easy
00:49 streetwitch No?
00:49 vincent-lg I thought at first I will just put your page down and re-build it little by little
00:49 but I would have broken your design and I finally thought of an easier solution
00:50 (that's why engineering is all about :P )
00:50 so the solution I've found is easy to use
00:50 MadMerlyn BigJMoney tell me about your python installation, like if you look at Add/Remove Programs (appwiz.cpl) what is listed for Python?
00:50 vincent-lg what we'll do is use Django forms but just to check the capcha. The rest, it's done as before
00:50 BigJMoney sure, I followed the link from the getting started page to download python-2.7.13.amd64.msi
00:51 I installed with all standard options except I enabled add to path
00:51 streetwitch Vincent, sounds like a good fix to me
00:51 vincent-lg IT'S NOT A STANDARD OPTION?
00:51 well perhaps not on Python 2
00:51 BigJMoney never has been afaik
00:51 MadMerlyn not on 3 either vincent
00:51 BigJMoney pretty sure not in 3 also which I have on another machine
00:51 vincent-lg really?
00:52 MadMerlyn that's because deploying in a Windows environment the path already tends to be super messy, so by default it's not enabled
00:52 vincent-lg well I checked that box without even thinking then. I wouldn't brag about that if I were myself...
00:52 BigJMoney lol
00:52 vincent-lg streetwitch: so you will have to change... TADAAAAAAA... 2 files!
00:52 MadMerlyn BigJMoney and are you running evennia in its own env, or working out of root?
00:53 BigJMoney so here's the thing about that.  The getting started page doesn't tell you when (or how) to install pywin32
00:53 streetwitch Change tho, not create?
00:53 BigJMoney so it shouldn't matter right?
00:53 vincent-lg but you'll also have to follow the early steps of the tutorial, to isntall the django app with pop, and configure it in your settings
00:53 BigJMoney since I should be able to install it before I even clone evennia?
00:53 vincent-lg with your site key and site secret. If that's done, there are just two files to edit
00:53 MadMerlyn right.. I'm talking about python envs, not evennia
00:53 BigJMoney ah
00:54 MadMerlyn so when you install python, you can create envs, if you don't do anything in python but evennia it's ok to use root env
00:54 vincent-lg streetwitch: hu, well, actually, replace on e file and edit a second one :D
00:54 BigJMoney i ran virtual env pyenv
00:54 and then activated it
00:54 MadMerlyn but if you ever plan on doing more than one project, a virtual env is recommended
00:54 BigJMoney can see it worked by the prompt
00:54 virtualenv
00:54 MadMerlyn python -V says what?
00:55 BigJMoney Python 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016, 20:53:40) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32
00:55 "on win32"?
00:55 vincent-lg you sure pywin32 works on 64-bit? Because, well, I know it doesn't mean much but, it says 32 in the title after all
00:55 BigJMoney I was wondering that too
00:55 MadMerlyn lol vincent pywin32 is 64bit
00:56 vincent-lg although I'm sure I saw many examples where it was in the title and it worked just fine
00:56 MadMerlyn win32 is a generic moniker for windows applications
00:56 vincent-lg MadMerlyn: well they ought to rename it :D
00:56 that confuses me and BigJMoney, which is, in itself, a very good reason to change the name
00:56 streetwitch Vincent I'll brb on my laptop
00:56 MadMerlyn BigJMoney try this one: https://sourceforge.net/projec[…]y2.7.exe/download
00:57 BigJMoney hah
00:57 yeah I downloaded that one but haven't run it yet
00:57 ok
00:57 vincent-lg streetwitch: okay
00:57 BigJMoney holysmokes that is a win95 era looking installer
00:58 install = true :)
00:58 MadMerlyn that's because it's probably using tkinter
00:58 tkinter with defaults is a fugly GUI
00:58 BigJMoney :-P
00:58 streetwitch_ joined #evennia
00:58 BigJMoney yeah I wrote an app in it, it's god awful
00:58 streetwitch_ Hi
00:58 vincent-lg never used tkinter that much
00:58 streetwitch_ vincent-lg: do I need to use,   evennia startapp chargen
00:58 vincent-lg but wxPython is accessible out of the box, so despite my reluctance I'm using it
00:59 streetwitch_ I thought I already had that running
00:59 vincent-lg streetwitch_: no no I mean
00:59 BigJMoney ok so should i submit but report about .whl file not working on some systems but windows binary install works fine?
00:59 I'm on win10 btw
00:59 vincent-lg on the tutorial page
00:59 at the bottom
01:00 MadMerlyn well isn't the wheel a compile operation?
01:00 streetwitch_ Ok
01:00 vincent-lg pip install django-nocaptcha-recaptcha
01:00 and configuring it
01:00 MadMerlyn you'll need the Visual C build tools installed to do wheels IIRC
01:00 or just the Visual Studio Express base install works too, but you can get a redist for just the V C++ stuff
01:00 vincent-lg I guess wheels are pre-compiled
01:01 but perhaps I'm wrong
01:01 BigJMoney i did install that as well
01:01 vincent-lg installing a compiler on Windows is not as easy as Linux :D
01:01 MadMerlyn also pywin32 is maintained by like 1 guy, who's a sysadmin like me lol
01:01 vincent-lg that's why I'm happy when I find a working binary for Windows
01:02 BigJMoney i have the redist installed but I wonder if reboot is silently required
01:02 vincent-lg ha, it's not even developed by Microsoft?
01:02 MadMerlyn he pretty much wrote ALL the windows-related libs for python
01:02 MS developing Python libs? why?
01:02 vincent-lg like winsound
01:02 dunno, it's THEIR system, not mine
01:02 MadMerlyn pywin32 are python libs that hook into well documented MS APIs/etc.
01:03 right but pywin32 isn't MS's property
01:03 vincent-lg it would make sense for them to write the interfaces, or at least, support them from a distance
01:03 MadMerlyn neither is python
01:03 and that's what they've done
01:03 vincent-lg ho okay
01:03 they support the API, then that's just a binding. Make sense
01:03 MadMerlyn pywin32 is a python project that hooks into the MS standards for things like events and service handling
01:03 BigJMoney well any case I followed the getting started to the letter and the pywin32 install piece failed.  Would like to figure out how to submit feedback on that if possible.  Otherwish nbd someone will
01:04 vincent-lg cant help you there, sorry. MadMerlyn is the expert
01:04 ask me to set Linux services and I will be more talkative
01:04 streetwitch_: how is it going?
01:05 MadMerlyn I wouldn't submit anything on pywin32 about installation TBH, he gets flooded with bug reports for installation issues that are often user-related problems.
01:05 trust me, I looked when I was doing my work project with it :P
01:05 streetwitch_ Just finished adding the keys to settings.py
01:05 What's next?
01:06 vincent-lg MadMerlyn: it's always the users' fault
01:06 but we can't say it, it would be rude. Let's help them :D
01:06 MadMerlyn in this case it usually is heh
01:06 BigJMoney I am a pretty textbook new user case.  A fairly fresh Win10 PC that never had Python on it
01:06 vincent-lg streetwitch_: okay... let's see
01:06 MadMerlyn he had a problem in 220 build specifically python 3.6 release where it wouldn't detect the python install
01:06 vincent-lg I would like to check but I guess we'll find out soon enough
01:07 so the next step
01:07 open your web/chargen/forms.py file
01:07 streetwitch_ ok
01:07 vincent-lg and delete everything in it. If it's like mine everything was commented anyway
01:07 BigJMoney thanks for the help in any case!
01:08 streetwitch_ yup ok
01:08 vincent-lg https://hastebin.com/riribavipo.hs
01:08 you'll just put these lines in your forms.py. Pretty short. We create a Django form with one single field: the capcha
01:09 and we'll let the API handle it, 'cause it's its job, and it does it well
01:09 streetwitch_ ok
01:09 I pasted it into forms.py
01:09 vincent-lg when you have done that tell me and we'll go to the final step
01:09 streetwitch_ done,
01:09 vincent-lg okay
01:10 then in web/chargen/views.py
01:10 we won't break a lot of things, we'll jsut add the checks in the creating function
01:10 that's the function that is called when you click the submit button on your form
01:10 streetwitch_ should I find that in views.py?
01:10 vincent-lg yeah
01:11 hold on though you'll have to add some imports at the top of the file
01:11 in web/chargen/views.py
01:11 with all the imports, you can add
01:11 from django.http import HttpResponseRedirect
01:11 from web.chargen.forms import CapchaForm
01:11 (the firsrst import is just to get proper redirecting and the second is our form)
01:12 streetwitch_ ok added it
01:13 vincent-lg then locate your creating function
01:13 streetwitch_ ok
01:13 It's the big one
01:13 vincent-lg you'll just have to change the first lines. I'll show you a mix of your code and mine so you see the new lines to add, that's not a lot
01:14 streetwitch_ ok ty
01:14 vincent-lg https://hastebin.com/etacugidex.py
01:14 as you see it's in when the form request is POST
01:15 we create the CapchaForm which is responsible for examining the capcha field, and asking gooogle "is that a valid answer"? If not, return on the same page (it will do that, for isntance, if you submit the form without checking the checkbox). If not proceed just like you did before
01:16 streetwitch_ Should I restart the server?
01:16 vincent-lg I've left the two lines at the end to show you you'll keep all the lines in the function
01:16 you don't have to remove all of them
01:16 you'll just have to add a few lines. I don't know if this makes sense to you
01:16 yep or reload it at least
01:16 streetwitch_ ok
01:17 vincent-lg to test, go to the /chargen page. Enter something, forget to check the box. Click submit and... it shouldn't proceed
01:17 streetwitch_ Well the server started alright.  :)
01:17 vincent-lg though it will put all the values back in your form... which isn't something that I can work around right now
01:17 but if you enter the right field and check the box and submit... and that's where it gets tricky... IT SHOULD create your character :D
01:17 if it doesn't we'll have some debugging
01:18 streetwitch_ Yeah!
01:18 You did it brother!
01:18 vincent-lg it didn't work for me at first because I foolishly forgot to update my site key
01:18 great!
01:18 streetwitch_ wait
01:18 vincent-lg I must say it looks rather nice when it works :D
01:18 streetwitch_ I still have to try validating it as a human
01:18 vincent-lg hu
01:18 you mean checking the box?
01:19 or doing something else?
01:19 streetwitch_ No
01:19 When I check the box and hit submit it still takes me vack
01:19 vack/back
01:19 vincent-lg haha
01:19 it didn't work it seems
01:20 streetwitch_ It works on your end?
01:20 vincent-lg can you check your site key and site secret
01:20 both in your template and in your settings
01:20 streetwitch_ sure
01:20 vincent-lg to see if they are the same?
01:20 streetwitch_ What template?
01:20 I put them in my settings
01:20 but not in the template
01:20 vincent-lg yep, but as I said, I didn't check my site key well enough :D
01:20 MadMerlyn just got my fancy 1 size fits anything socket in the mail today
01:20 vincent-lg streetwitch_: look in web/chargen/templates/chargen/index.html
01:21 streetwitch_ ooh ok
01:21 good idea!
01:21 MadMerlyn has a bunch of spring-loaded steel rods inside the socket so when you push it against a bolt head it always has a grip
01:21 vincent-lg at the end you should have a div with at least your site key
01:21 check that it's the right one. This div will be updated by Google to contain the CAPCHA
01:21 BigJMoney OMG
01:21 Are pywin32 and pypiwin32 different things??
01:21 MadMerlyn yes
01:22 BigJMoney heh, so the wiki is still missing info, but pip install pypiwin32 does work
01:22 vincent-lg lol
01:22 that's something :D
01:23 streetwitch_ vincent-lg:  I'm not sure where I should be looking
01:23 BigJMoney which isnt' what you told me but not sure if i told you my problem incorrectly to begin with ;)
01:23 streetwitch_ I have this at the end of the form:  <div class="g-recaptcha" data-sitekey="6LcgqiIUAAAAANA4C​zjpEWndOrcYK35UNe-u1f3l"></div>
01:23 vincent-lg it's just that
01:23 data-sitekey="..."
01:23 streetwitch_ And that needs to match the settings.py?
01:23 MadMerlyn This is how you talk to car salesmen: We're pretty happy with the car we have, and I'm not really sure "similar monthly payment" is really going to be in my favor. Unless you're selling cars at invoice I don't see this as anything but an increase in my liability. I've looked at a few reviews online, such as Auto-trader's review and found that the base models are nearly identical, and the only real difference between the 2016 mode
01:23 vincent-lg you should check that what you have here matches what you have in your settings
01:24 streetwitch_ ok
01:24 vincent-lg your settings should contain both your site key and secret key that you shouldn't share :D
01:24 MadMerlyn char-limits, meh
01:24 if that salesman comes back to me he's going to give me a heck of a deal, but if he doesn't no skin off my nose :P
01:25 streetwitch_ settings.py has:    NORECAPTCHA_SITE_KEY = "6LcgqiIUAAAAANA4CzjpEWndOrcYK35UNe-u1f3l"
01:25 MadMerlyn I HAVE THE KEY NOW *evil laughter*
01:25 vincent-lg :D
01:26 and it'll be written in the log
01:26 MadMerlyn excuse me while I go pwn a server
01:26 BigJMoney hm, so pip instal pypiwin32 fails at a different point now yay
01:26 vincent-lg hope no bot is smart enough to get that
01:26 let's see
01:26 streetwitch_ Do I need to put the secret key anywhere?
01:26 vincent-lg seems to be the same though
01:26 bother
01:27 no it should be fine... hm
01:27 could you show me your web/chargen/views.py file?
01:28 we can display the error in the form too but that would be some more debugging
01:28 at least, look on the bright side, no bot can ever bother you now
01:30 streetwitch_ vincent-lg sure hold on
01:31 vincent-lg UberEATS has arrived in my town today!
01:31 streetwitch_ Actually i'm not sure how to give you the source file
01:31 vincent-lg unfortunately, Taco Bell is playing lone ranger
01:31 streetwitch_ I only have it on the cloud server
01:31 vincent-lg streetwitch_: can you paste the file in a pastebin?
01:31 like haste or whatever else you want
01:31 streetwitch_ How do I copy it tho?
01:32 vincent-lg:  I could make you an account on the mud server?
01:32 vincent-lg you can't copy/paste on this device?
01:32 streetwitch_ It is an ubuntu shell
01:32 I have a terminal
01:32 vincent-lg streetwitch_: I already have one I think. But it doesn't give me access to the source code :D
01:32 ho
01:32 streetwitch_ let me msg you
01:33 vincent-lg McDonald perhaps?
01:34 it's confusing to be in the realm of eternal fast food and to not be able to get any :D
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06:11 evenniacode [evennia.wiki] Griatch pushed to page 'Coding Utils' https://github.com/evennia/eve[…]wiki/Coding-Utils
06:21 [forum] Griatch Art posted 'Re: How feasible would these features be?' https://groups.google.com/d/ms[…]5Kic/QP03FRVzAwAJ
07:41 Tehom joined #evennia
09:04 * Griatch is working on the player->account changes in the devel branch for Evennia 0.7. Wrote a custom replacer, will probably distribute that to make it easy for people to convert gamedirs when the time comes.
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09:57 Jace_ What's the best way to add to the player object after the game has launched? Let's say I want to add a new persistent attribute on the player. Is this possible without calling at_object_creation?
09:58 Griatch Jace_: Of course. In code you can search for the player object and then use playerobj.db.attrname = value as usual
09:59 From in-game you can use @set.
10:00 Jace_ So if I add something that all players would share such as a new stat I would have to programatically update the new attribute on all of the existing players?
10:00 Griatch There is nothing magical with at_player_creation, it's just very useful to be able to call something only once.
10:01 Jace_: That is correct. If you look at the first coding tutorials you'll find an example of how to handle this easily.
10:01 Tehom Jace_: Yes, though if you're doing constant values that will be the same throughout the entire typeclass, it might make more sense to do it as a property rather than a database attribute, at least for the base value
10:01 Jace_ My tired eyes must have missed it. I will go through the tutorials again.
10:02 Griatch But that said, while updating existing objects is simple and a one-off thing, there is a reason we recommend you plan things out before starting to actually build a big world.
10:02 Jace_ Well a MUD being in perpetual beta and all seems that a new addition would sneak out sooner or later. Just wanted to cover my bases.
10:02 Griatch Tehom: True - no need to use an Attribute if it's static.
10:04 Jace_: Apart from manual updates, there are provisions for this in the case of database migrations. This is how we (we, as in the Evennia upstream devs) can update the database schema from time to time despite users already running games with the old schema.
10:04 Migrations has nothing to do with Attributes though.
10:06 Jace_ Well currently I am just playing around and do not plan to have any players. However, if this case changes would hate to hamstring myself. Hopefully I can share some decent additions to the community through this process.
10:08 Griatch Jace_: During development (when things are changing the most, most likely) it's generally easiest to just flush the database and start over when you do big changes.
10:09 You can do your building in batchfiles to easily rebuild your test environment, if that is a concern.
10:10 Jace_ That sounds like a nice idea, however, if by batchfiles you mean windows batch files I have never been good with those. =P
10:11 Griatch No, I mean Evennia batchfiles.
10:11 Like the one you use to build the tutorialworld
10:12 Jace_ Oh the .ev files. Gotcha, yes those are awesome.
10:13 Griatch Right. There are two of them actually, using .ev and another using .py files: https://github.com/evennia/eve[…]/Batch-Processors
10:14 Jace_ You really have thought of everything.
10:16 Griatch Well, that's a bit of a stretch. But we try. :)
10:21 evenniacode [evennia.wiki] Griatch pushed to page 'Builder Docs' https://github.com/evennia/eve[…]wiki/Builder-Docs
10:21 [evennia.wiki] Griatch pushed to page 'Batch Processors' https://github.com/evennia/eve[…]/Batch-Processors
10:25 Jace_ So if I wanted to drop a player into a character generator using multi-session mode 0 it would have to be called from at_object_creation, right?
10:29 Griatch Hm how do you mean drop a player into a character generator?
10:29 You mean how to start the chargen?
10:29 Or where
10:31 evenniacode [evennia.wiki] Griatch pushed to page 'Batch Command Processor' https://github.com/evennia/eve[…]Command-Processor
10:32 Jace_ Well I am wanting to allow people to connect and create one character. When they enter the name and password I would like it to drop right into chargen
10:32 Using EvMenu more less.
10:34 Griatch Ok, for that you should override the end of the login command so that it launches the evmenu if you haven't set up your character yet.
10:34 Jace_ Alright, I will most certainly try that.
10:34 Thanks for everything.
10:34 Griatch You can also look at contrib/chargen for another way to do it.
10:36 That one lands you in your Player/Account level and gives you choice if you want to make a new character. Might be a good idea if you have help/tutorials or other info to show before they start.
11:04 Jace_ Hey @Griatch is there a way to @ex without truncating long lines?
11:14 Griatch Don't recall, honestly. Maybe @py/raw?
11:14 @ex/raw
11:15 Jace_ Hmm no change.
11:18 Griatch Probably not possible then. Examine specific attributes if you want to see the entire strings.
11:19 @ex obj/attrname
11:19 Jace_ Worked like magic. Thanks.
12:13 Found a bug in the docu: https://github.com/evennia/eve[…]Gametime-Tutorial
12:13 Well a typo that is:
12:14 # in a file mygame/commands/showtime.py should be gametime.py
12:25 Griatch Cool, do you have time to fix it?

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