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Time Nick Message
00:10 weex joined #evennia
00:47 DiscordBot <Cloud_Keeper> The tutorial game calls it a bardisk
01:11 castlelore thanks
01:13 weex left #evennia
02:37 evenniacode [PR review] Henddher reviewed PR #1967 (Tests for evennia/utils/validatorfuncs.):[…]treview-302293352
02:37 [PR review] Henddher created review comment on PR #1967 (Tests for evennia/utils/validatorfuncs.) for evennia: There seems to be some issues with the creation of datetimes[152 more] ([…]ussion_r335255351)
02:38 [pull request] Henddher edited PR #1967 (Tests for evennia/utils/validatorfuncs.) to evennia/unit_tests
02:38 [pull request] Henddher ready-for-review PR #1967 (Tests for evennia/utils/validatorfuncs.) to evennia/unit_tests
02:39 [issue comment] Henddher commented on issue #1967 (Tests for evennia/utils/validatorfuncs.) in evennia: Another one @Griatch :) ([…]comment-542484599)
04:03 DiscordBot <Reilena> Things having to do with twister are usually beyond me. But I got this pinging our server over and over causing it to freeze up this evening. Anyone have any insight on this?
04:08 <Kovitikus> So you denied of service yourself?
04:09 <Reilena> ¯_(ツ)_/¯
04:09 <Kovitikus> Hehe.
04:10 <Reilena> Someone was doing something on the game or on our website and it started spewing this until the game locked up.
04:10 <Reilena> You could still use the website and connect, but nothing game related was free to process.
04:11 <Kovitikus> Well, it looks like gibberish to me, so you'll have to wait to hear from an expert.
05:18 <Kovitikus> Oh man, nothing like eating 4 plain hot dogs for breakfast, washed down with a caffeine-free Coke zero.
05:19 <Kovitikus> That was quite possibly the worst and saddest meal of my life. 🤢 😭
05:22 <Kovitikus> No I take that back, maybe it was when my parents gave me cereal and since we didn't have any milk they gave me beer in it instead.
05:24 <Kovitikus> Here's what my fridge currently looks like. 😁
05:28 <Darren> Do I even want to know why you have do much Duke's?
05:30 <Darren> Also, Hunts instead of Heinz? Tsk tsk.
05:31 <Kovitikus> Hunts is thicker and better.
05:31 <Kovitikus> Dukes is just the best store-bought mayonnaise you can buy.
05:31 <Kovitikus> ¯_(ツ)_/¯
05:32 <Kovitikus> Right now I have no use for the mayo, but I use it when I either have sandwiches or french fries.
05:32 <Darren> Madness.
05:32 <Kovitikus> I'm not big on ketchup and I recently bought multiple brands to do a taste test.
05:32 <Kovitikus> Hunts was the best out of all of them.
05:35 <Darren> I tried Hunts recently when I realized that it was nearly $5 to get a bottle of Heinz sans the HFCS and Hunts was only around $3.  That's the only way I recognized the bottle from the back :p
05:36 <Kovitikus> "Damn girl, you looking good from behind!", Darren commented to the ketchup bottle.
05:37 <Kovitikus> I don't even care for ketchup that much, so I use it sparingly. I mostly like mustard or mayo.
05:37 <Darren> I like Heinz because it contains more vinegar.
05:37 <Darren> Same with Duke's
05:37 <Kovitikus> That might be where it gets a bit more acidic bite from.
05:38 <Kovitikus> Duke's mayo has a bunch of special spices they put in it that gives it the perfect lift.
05:38 <Darren> Dukes is awesome
05:38 <Kovitikus> I dunno, but it's so good when I open a fresh jar, I eat a plain spoonful.
05:38 <Darren> I don't have any at the moment though, I have Hellman's, I think
05:38 <Kovitikus> It degrades the longer it's been open of course, but a fresh jar... oh man.
05:39 <Darren> Heinz just started making their own mayo and it's pretty good, too
05:39 <Darren> I never ate any right out of the jar, but when I was a kid, we would make sandwiches out of bread and Duke's, and call it lunch 🙂
05:40 <Kovitikus> I didn't even know about Duke's until maybe 6 months ago.
05:40 <Kovitikus> Prior to that I never bought mayo, because I hate when it's not even real mayo, but the  brand that are aren't that great.
05:40 <Darren> It's mainly a southern thing, I think
05:41 <Kovitikus> Mayo is pretty easy to make on your own... well ok nevermind, it's easy to split the eggs if you overdo the oil pouring, but homemade is better.
05:41 <Darren> Never had it
05:41 <Darren> I know how to make it but never have
05:41 <Darren> Don't see how I could possibly make something better than Duke's tbh
05:42 <Kovitikus> You take 2 or 3 egg yolks.
05:43 <Kovitikus> Put them in a bowl, start whisking or using a blender or whatever. SLOWLY start pouring in your oil (avocado or extra virgin olive oil, etc). Once the eggs have absorbed enough of the oil you can start pouring it in faster. Near the end, put in some white wine vinegar and a sprinkle of salt. BAM! You've got mayo.
05:43 <Kovitikus> The vinegar is what turns it white.
05:44 <Kovitikus> And makes it taste better of course.
05:44 <Cloud_Keeper> Anyone got an EvMenu where you pass it a module directly rather then a list of nodes?
05:44 <Darren> I have never used EvMenu, honestly. I tend to dislike that sort of thing, I prefer the command line.
05:45 <Kovitikus> Pass it a module directly rather than a list of nodes?
05:45 <Kovitikus> You mean like the goto?
05:46 <Cloud_Keeper> def init(self, caller, menudata, startnode="start",.....
05:47 <Cloud_Keeper> Documentation says that menudatea should be a path, a dictionary or a module
05:47 <Cloud_Keeper> Oh wait
05:47 <Cloud_Keeper> I think I got it.
05:48 <Kovitikus> Oh yeah, duh, that's right. It's for pointing to the file that holds the nodes.
05:55 <Darren> Belatedly, there is nothing wrong with having hot dogs for breakfast!
05:55 <Kovitikus> It wasn't tasty. I just ate them plain with a bit of ketchup and mustard.
05:59 <Darren> They taste better when done in the air fryer, IMO.
05:59 Griatch Hi folks
06:00 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> Quick, hide the food!
06:00 <Darren> Hi G
06:00 <Kovitikus> 😄
06:00 Griatch @Reilena Make sure your internal AMP port is not open to the world. That looks like someone is trying to send data directly to the port and it's not on a familiar form. Evennia 0.9 handles this better btw.
06:01 Hah, you guys sure like your food
06:06 @Kovitikus: Somehow that fridge-photo fulfulls every preconcieved notion of American eating habits.
06:06 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> LOL
06:06 <Darren> His fridge is hardly typical
06:06 Griatch Too few steaks in there
06:07 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> First of all, I barely bought any food this month. Just eggs, frozen chicken, and some frozen sausage patties. Also, I only have Walmart to shop at... so yeah.
06:07 <Kovitikus> I'm extremely poor, so I can't just go to the local produce market every day for fresh vegetables.
06:07 Griatch Interesting, vegetables are the cheapest food here.
06:08 (*is* the cheapest food? Is vegetables a plural form in this context?)
06:08 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> I live in a spot where a vehicle is required and the closest place to get vegetables is Walmart and it's not cheap or fresh.
06:08 <Kovitikus> You had it correct with "are".
06:09 Griatch :D
06:09 DiscordBot <Cloud_Keeper> Time to grab the pitchfork and do a little farming yourself!
06:10 <Cloud_Keeper>
06:11 <Kovitikus> 144p?
06:11 <Kovitikus> Are you serious?
06:11 Griatch Walmart charges more for vegetables than other foodstuffs? Strange, I guess it's a distribution/transport cost then.
06:11 DiscordBot <Cloud_Keeper> I just the first link
06:11 <Kovitikus> Yeah, plus all the veggies are nearly rotten by the time they get to the store, so they have a lot of waste to calculate into their price.
06:11 <Cloud_Keeper> grabbed*
06:12 <Darren> Man your Walmart sounds really ghetto 😦
06:12 <Kovitikus> Mine isn't so horrible.
06:12 Griatch Nearly rotten? Are you living so far from anywhere?
06:12 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> That's the funny thing, I live in Pennsylvania which is mostly farmland.
06:13 <Kovitikus> Except that it's mostly corn and soy.
06:13 <Darren> That's true everywhere now
06:13 <Kovitikus> Yeah.
06:13 Griatch I mean, in cold conditions, a sallad or tomato lasts two weeks at least.
06:13 DiscordBot <Darren> Here used to be tobacco now it's corn and soy
06:13 <Kovitikus> Apples tend to be better here in PA because they are grown locally.
06:14 <Kovitikus> I've had to complain the manager at the store because I looked at the bottom of the strawberries and nothing but mold.
06:14 <Kovitikus> I'm like, do they not even check their produce?
06:14 Griatch Ouch
06:14 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> Then, someone else who worked there told me later on that they just opened all the packages of strawberries and took the strawberries from the top and repackaged them, throwing out the bottom ones.
06:14 <Darren> I overload on apples every time I drive near Lancaster
06:14 <Kovitikus> I was like 😲
06:15 Griatch Ok, so a crappy store/policy rather than actually low availability of fresh stuff
06:16 I'd imagine
06:16 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> I don't know...
06:16 Griatch Sounds worth to find another store, if there is one.
06:16 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> Even the more "local" fruit and garden market has a lot of veggies that are close to rotting.
06:17 <Darren> Walmart actually has a very nice grocery section, and good produce with acceptable prices. At least the one here does, but then it might be special because it's a Supercenter.
06:17 <Kovitikus> I can sometimes find fine stuff in the produce, I just have to be very careful.
06:18 Griatch Regularly old stuff like that would lead to the state force-shutting down the store, here.
06:18 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> I disagree with the way they store potatoes. They aren't in the right humidity or temperature conditions IMO, because I frequently find mine quickly growing mold after buying.
06:18 <Kovitikus> No matter how I try to store them.
06:18 Griatch Yeah, that's not right
06:19 Potatoes may sprout or shrivel if left for too long, they shouldn't mold :/
06:19 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> They gave up unboxing the gallon bottles of water and now they just let them sit there in the cardboard boxes for the customers to open the boxes and get their own gallon jugs.
06:19 <Kovitikus> IKR, which means they already had been in moldy conditions.
06:20 Griatch They don't sell water bottles here, luckily
06:20 DiscordBot <Cloud_Keeper> G! This is why I can't code unless I'm in the loving support of a relationship. Just wasted an hour on a "<" instead of a ">". My poor fragile self worth cannot take such brutal showcasing of my ineptitude!
06:20 <Darren> You would think it would be the other way around, all that excess energy should be channeled into coding :p
06:21 Griatch @Cloud_Keeper: There, there. I happens to everyone. Let us all give you a hug.
06:22 DiscordBot <Cloud_Keeper> Thank you 😦
06:23 Griatch As for me, I was planning to look at a bug while on the train but got distracted by the food quality in a Pennsylvanian Walmart.
06:23 DiscordBot <BP-Santo> My local stores got a bit worse lately have to say too
06:23 <Kovitikus> Hehe.
06:23 <BP-Santo> Had a nice fish shop but lately quality went down unfortunately and also no more sushi 😦
06:23 <Darren> Geez my local Walmart got slammed in Yelp reviews.[…]center-california
06:23 <Cloud_Keeper> Well, we haven't gotten to the bugs in the Pennsylvanian Walmat yet!
06:24 <BP-Santo> They used to have store-bought style sushi but it came on thursday and if you got there at say 9 it was really fresh, not high quality but made on that day at least
06:24 Griatch O_o;
06:24 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> Here's another kicker, all their frozen stuff sits in the aisle while the employees maybe decide to put them in the freeze. I've walked by an entire pallet of ice cream just melting away in the middle of the aisle without an employee in sight.
06:24 <Kovitikus> If you want bugs in the Walmart, try stink bugs.
06:24 <BP-Santo> Now no more sushi, the fish is fine but kinda just does not taste as good no more
06:24 <Cloud_Keeper> You should clean that place up Koitikus! You have my support to be the new manager
06:25 Griatch Yeah, that sounds like a management problem of that particular store
06:25 DiscordBot <BP-Santo> Big stores are generally not the way to go, I've seen some really nice supermarkets but they all seem to eventually just crash and burn
06:25 <Kovitikus> The interesting thing is that I looked at the Pennsylvania health inspection site and all the other restaurants and even grocery stores are on there, but Walmart has never had an inspection somehow.
06:25 <Cloud_Keeper> BP: They've probably changed the species of fish. They have to every now and then as species become harder to obtain
06:25 <BP-Santo> And management often seems very incompetent - had a smaller supermarket over here in my subburb and it was horribly missmanaged
06:26 <Darren> The problem is, big stores like Walmart quickly put all the small, decent places out of business.
06:26 <Kovitikus> I would make a good manager.
06:26 <Kovitikus> I would run that place like a... something really strict and clean.
06:26 <BP-Santo> Over here big stores die nowadays cause people just choose to go to the smaller stores
06:26 <BP-Santo> Its a matter of choice
06:26 <BP-Santo> Discount stores however are the equivalent cause that pulls in mad foot traffic
06:27 Griatch Is Walmart running with employees or does each store have a franchise owner? Because here, the latter tends to be more efficient - the francise owner runs their own store so they are more motivated to make it run well.
06:27 DiscordBot <BP-Santo> Even though they are not really discount stores no more, its a regular fucking store just has regular stuff and just some crap too
06:27 <Darren> Walmart is corporate only
06:27 <BP-Santo> We have some massive tescos, they really suck terrible imo compared to our smaller stores
06:28 <Darren> Tescos is pretty bad in general
06:28 Griatch I like Lidl. German chain, generally very fresh stuff.
06:28 DiscordBot <Darren> At least the ones I was in in the UK were pretty bad
06:28 <BP-Santo> Just a massive waste of time, hard to find the good stuff - small store is like 12m2 and it has all the food in there that I could find at a 800m2 tesco
06:28 <Kovitikus> Walmart can't be beat pricewise here. For someone who is on welfare... all the other stores nearby are about 50% more expensive, even for normal brand things.
06:28 <Darren> @Kovitikus Same here.
06:29 <Darren> They are the cheapest place to shop
06:29 <BP-Santo> I don't likl lidl very much, jusy a bit dodgy over here - I'd rather go to a regular veggie store
06:29 <Darren> I have never been in a Iidl
06:29 <Kovitikus> I look at a bag of frozen french fries at Walmart and it's $3. I go to the nearby local chain supermarket and the exact same bag is $4.50
06:29 <Kovitikus> I can't afford that.
06:29 Griatch It's the opposite here; the big stores tend to take over from the small ones - the small ones just cannot compete in the amount of choice nor on price.
06:29 DiscordBot <BP-Santo> It's not bad just lacks the main things I buy - I used to go to lidl when I was younger though
06:29 <Darren> So buy a 50lb bag of idaho potatoes instead 🙂
06:30 <BP-Santo> Big stores here keep failing, even the really nice ones, especially the nice ones I think
06:30 <Kovitikus> I try to buy raw potatoes, but again I've had issues with mold.
06:30 <BP-Santo> As in a big supermarket more french style with these islands with staff to serve meats or cheeses etc.
06:30 <Kovitikus> So unfortunately, I tend to have better quality food when it's been frozen from the manufacturer.
06:30 <Darren> I havn't had any bad potatos from Walmart. Food Lion and Aldi, on the other hand >.<
06:31 <BP-Santo> A lot of imports etc. - keeps failing, the management just goes too extreme on trying to stock too many things that people just dont buy all that much, also expensive locations
06:31 <Kovitikus> It would be nice if we could afford to kick Walmart out as a community, but it's impossible in this location.
06:32 <Kovitikus> The Pittsburgh area was driven entirely by the steel industry. In the 1970s that went away and nothing ever replaced it, especially for the local rural communities.
06:32 <Kovitikus> So now, welfare and minimum wage jobs are the norm.
06:32 <Darren> Moving somewhere else isn't an option?
06:33 <BP-Santo> Food quality is a big deal for me in chosing where I would live nowadays c:
06:33 <BP-Santo> If you can't have access to good food, clean water, clean air then whats the point right?
06:33 <Darren> Those things cost money
06:34 <Kovitikus> I mean, anywhere I move I'd have to find low income subsidized housing.
06:34 <BP-Santo> You could have italian style aged ham on traditional bread (the heavy, sour dough style thing) with fresh veggies from an organic farm over here for a couple dollars total
06:35 <BP-Santo> Also what would be considered "artisanal" condiments on top of that, a giant fucking sandwich like that like for 2 dollars if you made it yourself
06:35 <BP-Santo> So things cost money but it's all relative right?
06:35 <Cloud_Keeper> Well let's get you a job then.
06:36 <Darren> Bread is expensive here now , nearly $3 for a loaf and that's the over-processed unhealthy white bread
06:36 <Darren> Good bread costs a lot more
06:36 <BP-Santo> Bread is way more expensive here nowadays but still it's like maybe a dollar tops for a big loaf
06:36 <BP-Santo> Thing is good bread, good veggies here are not expensive because a lot of places just do it that way - its not a special thing, its just, the thing
06:36 <BP-Santo> It got more expensive by an order of magnitude - used to cost nothing really
06:37 <BP-Santo> Could get a loaf of bread for hmm like 30 pence? Maybe 20 years ago
06:37 <Darren> The cheaest is to buy from the "day old" section in Walmart (or some other store). You can get a huge "italian style" loaf of bread made right in the store, out of that section, for $1
06:37 <Kovitikus> Europe has different wheat.
06:37 <Kovitikus> Heirloom wheat.
06:38 <Kovitikus> Before it was modified to be resistant to all the chemicals and stuff.
06:38 <BP-Santo> It's a big deal imo to find place/things that are simply good rather than offer choice - why now that I am older I go to the smaller shops because they have a 100 things rather than a 1000 things but after very close apraisal (I am very obsessive about these things) it was clear they have the 100 best things out of a possibly 1000 things if you know what I mean.
06:38 <Kovitikus> The modified wheat we have in America has more complex gluten that makes it extremely unhealthy.
06:39 <Kovitikus> As I got older I tend to buy things for the quality and not the price.
06:39 <Kovitikus> I used to waste... so much money buying cheap headphones.
06:40 <BP-Santo> Small shops sometimes are a treasure trove just it's all fucking badly displayed, out of sight etc.
06:40 <Kovitikus> Then one day I said, enough of this garbage, and simply bought a pair of Sennheisers which have had no issues now for 5 years.
06:40 <Darren> As I get older, I find that I have less patience for all the shopping,, prepping, etc so I go the route that takes less time. That means ordering out, getting stuff delivered, and eating a lot of preared, processed crap
06:40 <BP-Santo> I order most of my food but it's not crap fortunately 🙂 - but yeah one place goes under then my whole chicken supply chain is goofed
06:41 <Kovitikus> You gotta be unemployed like me to take 3 hours to make a real meal from scratch, sometimes longer.
06:41 <Kovitikus> You're lucky Dr. Santo, you live in a place where the legislation actually protects the people.
06:41 <Darren> Yeah I don't have that kind of free time. Ok maybe I do, but I would prefer to use it for other things, spending time with the GF, coding, etc
06:41 <Kovitikus> In the USA, it's all about profit.
06:42 <Kovitikus> Just making 2 loaves of bread is an all day process.
06:42 <Kovitikus> Of course a lot of it is waiting, but there's still dishes to be done.
06:42 <Darren> Yeah see I would never bother with trying to make my own bread
06:42 <Kovitikus> Cleaning up is usually the most time consuming part of cooking.
06:42 <Darren> Clean as you go, is my policy
06:43 <BP-Santo> Thing is, it's cultural - people over here get up and make bread at early hour of the day (you can see them through a window which is common for some bakeries) so there is fresh bread in that bakery and then generally lower middle class people already go there rather than say a discount store.
06:43 <BP-Santo> In the US it could be the same in a small town making likely way more money than we do here just why make bread when you can make more money right?
06:43 <Darren> There are people who do that here, too but they are rare nowadays
06:44 <Darren> the Amish, for example, still make all of their food by hand
06:44 <Kovitikus> I do clean as I go. 🙂
06:44 <Kovitikus> I actually stop to wash my hands way too much, but I don't get how people can walk around their kitchen and touching things, getting grease/flour/etc all over things.
06:44 <Darren> Are you a germaphobe?
06:45 <BP-Santo> My cooking sucks btw. - I buy the best ingredients and make the worst things out of them. I don't know how it got there.
06:45 <BP-Santo> *got that way
06:45 <Darren> Not everyone can cook. it's a gift,like being good at sports
06:46 <Kovitikus> Not entirely, but why make more of a mess? I do wash my hands way too much but I don't think it's to do with germs. Just don't like having anything on my hands. I recall one time when I was a kid in Sears I didn't wash all the soap off my hands and my mother wouldn't let me go back to the bathroom so I started to cry.
06:47 <Darren> One of my first jobs was baking on a donut shop (this was when I was 17). My boss used to yell at me all the time for stopping to wash my hands. I couldn't stand all that grease though, would drive me nuts >.<
06:47 <Darren> err in*
06:48 <Darren> Fortunately that job was very short lived
06:48 <Kovitikus> Hmmm, yeah.
06:49 <Kovitikus> I mean, if I have a bit of grease on my hands or something, I'm not going to just go open my fridge without washing my hands first.
06:50 <Kovitikus> I know people who do that though.
06:50 <Darren> The donuts would sit on big wire mesh racks that would be lowered into the deep fryer. They would clean them between runs by washing them in hot water, which never removed all the grease
06:50 <Kovitikus> They end up with bits of whatever all over the kitchen eventually, which they never clean any of that either.
06:51 <Kovitikus> I actually went over to my neighbor's apartment one time and cleaned her stove because it was extremely nasty and a fire hazard.
06:51 <Darren> When I started college, I worked part time at a Popeye's as a fry cook. That was even greasier and messier than the donut shop
06:52 <BP-Santo> Now all I can think of is darren but it's that scene from Fast Times at Ridgemont High
06:53 <Darren> Popeyes was really rough on your hands. All those spices and stuff they used on the chicken would make your hands burn and turn red
06:53 <Kovitikus> This one? NSFW BTW
06:53 <BP-Santo>
06:55 <Kovitikus> I hear ya Darren, McDonalds was the most difficult job I ever worked, the least appreciated, and one of the lowest pays.
06:55 <Kovitikus> I avoided burning myself at all costs, but my friend would burn himself all the time on things.
06:55 <Kovitikus> It's surprising how much you can get away with injuries like that at a job that pays you almost nothing and treats you like a slave.
06:56 <Darren> My hands are mostly impervious to burns at this point
06:56 <Kovitikus> When I worked that job, I was getting paid minimum wage but working 2-3 positions at once.
06:56 <Kovitikus> Never eat salad at McDonalds.
06:56 <Darren> I used to be able to reach into the deep fryer with by bare hands to pull stuff out
06:56 <Darren> my*
06:56 <Kovitikus> They had me make the salad while taking orders in the back window at the drive through. So do you think I had time to wash my hands after handling money?
06:57 <Kovitikus> Might as well have a salad at a strip club.
06:57 <Darren> Eww
06:57 <Darren> Just the thought
06:58 <Kovitikus> Probably a safer bet to order it at a strip club to be honest.
06:58 <Kovitikus> McDonalds employees almost never wash their hands, they are far too busy.
06:58 <Darren> Well if I was at a strip club I sure as hell wouldn't be wanting salad :p
06:59 <Darren> Not that I actually go to those places
06:59 <Kovitikus> I don't think I've ever seen Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
06:59 <Kovitikus> I think I'll check it out, this looks hilarious.
06:59 <Darren> I have seen it but it's been /years/
07:00 <Darren> Didn't that come out in the 80's?
07:00 <Kovitikus> Probably.
07:01 <Darren> It's got some funny moments. If you liked movies like Porkies, you will like that one too. Probably.
07:02 <Kovitikus> Porkies relied very heavily on the sexual humor. It was never a very good movie. It had some moments though.
07:02 <Kovitikus> Today, that movie would be boycotted so quick.
07:02 <BP-Santo> This one has one very good moment for sure
07:03 <BP-Santo> It's an interesting movie in general in terms of capturing a certain look of the US - at least when looking in from the outside that is
07:03 <Darren> Porkie's has a couple of scenes that I still lol at
07:05 <Kovitikus> Jeez, the only good quality version I can find of Fast Times is 15 gigs...
07:06 jerryaldrichiii Hey all, quick question. I see 'OBS' referenced in comments in a few places, what does it mean?
07:06 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> Open Broadcasting Software.
07:06 jerryaldrichiii Ah, I'm familiar with that obs, just not sure how it applies in the places I'm seeing it
07:07 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> Sorry man, I was just guessing.
07:07 jerryaldrichiii Hah! No worries, that was my first guess to :)
07:08 DiscordBot <Darren> The funniest scene in Porkies. I still lose it watching this
07:08 <Kovitikus> Yeah, the tallywacker scene. The first time I ever heard that word too.
07:08 <Kovitikus> Surprised my parents let me watch that movie as a kid, but then again they did feed me a bowl of cereal with beer.
07:09 <Darren> That's Ok. My dad used to give me Schlitz malt liquor in a bottle to put me to sleep
07:10 <Kovitikus> Ahh, the good ole days.
07:10 <Darren> I don't remember it personally but my mom likes to tell the story of how difficult it was to get me to go to sleep
07:10 <Kovitikus> When people would parent how they saw fit.
07:11 <Kovitikus> I learned to tie my shoes because my mother beat me until I got it right.
07:11 <Darren> Never had a problem with that
07:11 <Kovitikus> Me either.
07:12 <Kovitikus> I'm sure I wasn't happy at the time, but look at me now ma!
07:12 <Cloud_Keeper> Jerryaldrichiii
07:12 <Darren> I do remember having to ask my 1st grade teacher to tie them for me once because I forgot how to do it
07:12 <Cloud_Keeper> From my reading, it looks like the author was using short hand for Obviously
07:13 <Cloud_Keeper> Obs = Obviously
07:13 <Kovitikus> I don't think that's true Cloud.
07:13 jerryaldrichiii Cloud_Keeper, that was my next thought...but it surely isn't obvious to my monkey brain /me sweat smiles
07:13 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> If it is true, then STOP being lazy and just write out your words.
07:13 <Kovitikus> beats the coder mercilessly until they learn
07:14 <Cloud_Keeper> Sweat smiles?! Those don't sound pleasant at all
07:14 <Cloud_Keeper> Maybe like when you're happy after a big work out
07:14 jerryaldrichiii Goin for[…].png?v=1480481057
07:14 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> Whoa.
07:15 <Cloud_Keeper> Hah oh I didn't think of that
07:15 <Kovitikus> Can't miss that one.
07:15 <Darren> Thats a big cmiley
07:15 <Darren> smiley!
07:15 jerryaldrichiii It's :sweatsmile: in Slack I think
07:15 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> Yuge.
07:15 jerryaldrichiii :YugeSmile:
07:15 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> Hehe, you don't see it on our end, but Discord rendered the image the size of the screen.
07:16 jerryaldrichiii Weird, just shows as a orange balloon knot on my end
07:16 Oh you mean the autoexpand on the sweat smile link? :D
07:16 DiscordBot <Darren>
07:16 <Kovitikus>
07:16 jerryaldrichiii Sorry bout that, no autoexpand on weechat :D
07:16 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> It's NP.
07:17 jerryaldrichiii Woah, that is huge.
07:17 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> Doesn't bother me at least.
07:17 <Kovitikus> It's like a low budget horror movie. 🙂
07:17 jerryaldrichiii Surprised no one hasn't abused that "feature", people are awful
07:17 s/no one hasn't/no one has/
07:18 DiscordBot <Cloud_Keeper> Pats ban hammer
07:18 <Cloud_Keeper> I'm perfectly happy to let all this power go to my head 😛
07:19 <Darren> Yikes, it's after 3am already 😦
07:19 jerryaldrichiii and 00:20 here, I'm gonna just one more feature myself into the morning I fear lol
07:19 DiscordBot <Darren> I should probably take a nap before work
07:20 <Kovitikus> In Discord, I generally encapsulate links I don't want to preview in the chat with < >.
07:20 <Kovitikus> But, I don't think that works out too well for IRC users, because the extra <> will be confusing otherwise.
07:20 <Darren> I still don't really know how to use Discord
07:21 <Kovitikus> There isn't much to know, but there are a couple of tricks.
07:21 <Darren> I can do basic stuff, never bothered to learn how to do anything more complex because I really only use it for here
07:21 <Darren> I use it for guild stuff too but then it's mostly the voice chat feature
07:22 <Darren> Don't think voice works here?
07:22 <Kovitikus> It does.
07:22 <Kovitikus> I used it twice at least.
07:22 <Darren> Oh ok. I never tried.
07:22 <Kovitikus> Why wouldn't it work? Plus, you were in the accidently once when I was talking to someone.
07:22 <Kovitikus> So you knew it worked.
07:22 <Darren> Was I?
07:23 <Darren> I don't remember that
07:24 <BP-Santo> You can click there by mistake but if your stuff is muted you won't hear anything
07:24 <BP-Santo> All my devices are disabled for purpose of discord cause I don't want them having access in general
07:24 <Kovitikus> August 13th, 2019 at 6:37 PM EST.
07:25 <Darren> Geez that was way back in August
07:25 <Kovitikus> Memory is the first thing to go.
07:25 <Darren> Second, but who is counting
07:26 <Darren> Yeah I don't remember that at all
07:27 <Kovitikus> It was a random small thing.
07:46 <Darren> 😴
07:55 <Kovitikus> Watching The Blue Planet documentary on Netflix, man is the ocean scary.
07:56 <Kovitikus> David Attenborough is 93 and he's still doing work as far as I can tell... what the heck will nature documentaries do when he dies?
07:58 <Cloud_Keeper> Morgan Freeman?
07:58 <Kovitikus> He's super old too.
07:58 <Kovitikus> It looks like I'm watching the original 2001 version, which explains why the footage is low quality.
08:11 <Kovitikus> Do you think dogs notice that their owners are wearing different fur every day?
10:51 <Cloud_Keeper> To be fair, my extended family have a practice of clothing their dogs
10:51 <Cloud_Keeper> And they don't seem to notice or care that each other are wearing different fur
11:33 <Kovitikus> I guess the real question is how do they distinguish what clothing is?
11:34 <Kovitikus> People talk about how octopi can change their shape and color and that it is an alien creature. But, I look at humans and I say, "Wow, what a weird creature."
13:26 Griatch jerryaldrichiii: OBS is short for OBServe. It's probably more common an abbreviation in Swedish, where the word happens to start the same (Observera)
13:33 DiscordBot <grungies1138> Anyone have an invite link to the regular Python Discord server?
13:59 <Kovitikus>
13:59 <grungies1138> Oh yes, thank you.
13:59 <Kovitikus> When in doubt, check the subreddit of a topic.
13:59 <Kovitikus> It's not listed anywhere else, that I could easily find.
13:59 <grungies1138> I actually found it there. 🙂
13:59 <Kovitikus> Spent like 5 minutes going through the main site and the forums... till I realize I'll just go with old trusty reddit.
14:00 <Kovitikus> Guess I should join that server too then, now that I know it's there.
14:01 <grungies1138> having a weird issue where a script fails with permission error, but if I run it again immediately after, it works
14:17 <Earthcrusher> does anyone here have experience using EvMenus?
14:17 <grungies1138> yeah
14:18 <Earthcrusher> i'm new to them, and trying to work out how to handle a kind of input that i'm not sure is covered
14:18 <Earthcrusher> my game is divided into zones. i have a menu in which you can choose to edit a particular zone, as of right now it looks like this:
14:18 <Earthcrusher>[…]53474/unknown.png
14:19 <grungies1138> ok.  seems fine.  What's the issue?
14:19 <Earthcrusher> in this next menu, i want the player to be able to directly edit fields, by simply typing something like name GardenPath, but of course "name" here is reserved as a specific command created by the menu node
14:19 <Earthcrusher>[…]68171/unknown.png
14:19 <Earthcrusher> sorry, was typin'
14:19 <Earthcrusher> i think i read that evmenu has a means of looking at raw_input but i'm not 100% sure how it works
14:25 <grungies1138> Yes so your best bet would be to create a processing function where they select the field they want to edit, then open up a free text input to allow them to enter a new value.  Then display it and have them verify
14:25 <Earthcrusher> hrm
14:25 <grungies1138> the goto of the option would point to a function
14:25 <Earthcrusher> there's no way to do that in-line? i'm trying to avoid jumping through extra nodes if i can avoid it
14:25 <grungies1138> not that I am aware of
14:25 <Earthcrusher> dang
14:25 <grungies1138> unless Griatch knows of a way
14:26 <Earthcrusher> maybe i'll ask around but i'll try that for now. thank you!
14:26 <grungies1138> I did something similar in some menus in my chargen where they would enter in their name and the like
14:26 <grungies1138> if you want an example
14:26 <Earthcrusher> and you're right, it's trivial to make an extra node that says "ok what's the name?"
14:26 <Earthcrusher> but i was hoping to just park the user at the "edit this particular zone" node and never have to make them go any further
14:27 <grungies1138> well, I think of it as a dialog box over the 'node'
14:27 <grungies1138> because after they enter the text, you cna send them right back to the zone menu
14:27 <grungies1138> or after they verify or whatever
14:40 <Earthcrusher> oh hey i found a way
14:40 <Earthcrusher> it's clunky but it works
14:41 <Earthcrusher>
14:41 <Earthcrusher> in my menu node's options, i use the key "_default", which handles any user input that didn't match an established key
14:41 <Earthcrusher> from there i can let the _edit_zone_parse_input method take over as a generic input handler
14:43 <grungies1138> oh yeah I guess that works
14:43 <grungies1138> just parsing text inputs is gross. 😛
14:43 <Earthcrusher> i consider it a small price to pay to make the experience as streamlined as possible
14:43 <grungies1138> I see that. 🙂
14:45 <Darren> omg this rain can stop any time now >.<
15:20 <Kovitikus> Won't stop today so much, cept a bit during mid afternoon.
15:35 <Kovitikus> I'm not convinced of the EvMenu system. It works, but the little experience I've had with it so far leads me to feel it is clunky and difficult to manipulate. I could just need more experience with it though.
15:37 <grungies1138> I've gotten good feedback overall from users that have used it
15:53 <Earthcrusher> i thought the same thing, but now that i'm used to it, it's a joy to work with
15:54 <Earthcrusher> for me, the trickiest part was understanding the difference between regular defined nodes, and callable ones intended to run a bit of code
16:03 <Kovitikus> Then I just need more experience with it.
16:03 <grungies1138> I think, like everything, it's also how you use it
16:03 <grungies1138> Like people expect Chargen to, potentially, have a little complexity.
16:04 <Darren> This is the most that I have ever used a menu system on a MU* and then it was all my own code
16:04 <grungies1138> So menus can actually help simplify that.  a heavily coded attack command is another example
16:05 bostrt joined #evennia
16:05 bostrt joined #evennia
16:07 DiscordBot <Kovitikus> I think I had issues with initializing the menu ndb attributes in my starting node to save info and to keep it from being overwritten if I go back to that node later, aka being reinitialized.
16:08 <Kovitikus> I have to do a bunch of checks and passing information along to keep things from breaking.
16:08 xardion joined #evennia
16:09 DiscordBot <Darren> It does seem particularly complicated
16:10 <Kovitikus> The whole point of the menu's ndb is to make cleanup easier when the menu closes.
16:11 <Kovitikus> But having to babysit it the whole way defeats the purpose.
16:12 <Kovitikus> Though, I'm sure it's nice to be certain data doesn't get stuck in existence if the menu ends unexpectedly. Whereas the manual cleanup method may be missed.
16:18 <grungies1138> The other thing you could do is write to a 'temp' attribute on the character that gets cleaned up at some point, but maintains a persistent point of restart should the menu need to restart
16:38 jerryaldrichiii Griatch: Thanks! Mystery solved!
16:44 Griatch Earthcrusher: Of you want command input in the EvMenu (like `name Foo` then yes, that requires you to parse the raw input. Doing so with `_default` is a pretty good bet.
16:45 I don't use the ndb very much anymore when making menus; you can just pass an object along between the nodes explicitly.
16:48 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> hey Griatch, I guess I'm just dumb because I still cannot quite grok command sets. say I wanted to make a special type of room with its own class (SpecialClass()), that inherits from regular rooms, but i want to make sure all these special rooms have a certain command usable in them
16:48 <Earthcrusher> could you walk me through how that works?
16:48 Griatch It will appear as a kwarg in your menu node for you to manipulate. This is also very useful for 'circular' nodes (repating a node over and over, setting various options every time)
16:49 @Earthcrusher: Are you familiar with what a CmdSet is, conceptually?
16:49 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> i am, i think what throws me off is how they're stored and accessed
16:49 <Earthcrusher> i was halfway through writing a command that checks to make sure you're in one specific room before i realized how goofy i was being
16:50 Griatch Ok, so in the non-persistent form, a CmdSet is a class stored in a list on the Object/Account.cmdset handler. This builds a 'stack' of cmdset on that Object.
16:51 The persistent form is basically a comma-separated list of cmdset-paths that gets loaded on a reload to re-build that stack of cmdsets.
16:51 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> alright, i follow so far
16:53 Griatch When you enter a command, all the CmdSets available to you - those in the stack on you, in your location, on objects in your inventory and on objects in your location (with some exceptions controllable by flags on the cmdset) will be gathered up and merged together to one, single stack. This is when merge-priority and merge-types come into play. The result is one single "active" (or "current") cmdset ...
16:53 ... containing the commands of the cmdsets the system has determines have priority enough to remain.
16:54 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> so i think i played around with merging command sets before - i recall i had some issue with adding one to my limbo room, getting it to work, wanting to remove it and having a database issue, etc.
16:54 Griatch In this merged (but temporary) stack, the command parser now looks to  see if the command you enter is among them (has a partial match, alias etc)
16:55 In the best case, a single Command class is a match and this is now prepared for you and run.
16:56 So to make a room with a specific command available in them, you need to (somehow) add a cmdset on that room with one or more Commands in it. If it is a Command-name not present in your on-Character/Account Cmdsets then that's all you need to do.
16:57 - henceforth, entering the room will make that command available to people.
16:58 What remains is to make it persistent, which is done with a kwarg to the `room.cmdset.add` call.
16:58 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> so i just now designed the room's command set, as follows:
16:58 <Earthcrusher> i'm wondering about inheritance, should i have it inheriting from the same class (default_cmds.CharacterCmdSet) as my actual default commands
16:59 Griatch Do you want all the normal Character commands available in your Chargen cmdset? That will lead to a lot of conflicts.
17:00 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> hrm
17:00 <Earthcrusher> shit, this is tricky
17:00 Griatch Because if you put that on the room, you'll now have one 'look' command from your Character and one from the room. I think the room's version will win out here so you'll probably not get a double-match but it's a bit pointless.
17:01 No, all you need is an empty container just with the Command you want.
17:01 Just inherit from the base CmdSet class, no super() or anything
17:01 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> does it not need to import from default_cmds.blahblah at all?
17:01 <Earthcrusher> ooh gotcha
17:02 <Earthcrusher>
17:02 Griatch That single command will merge into the stack next to the CharacterCmdSet you have on yourself and with the default settings, it will appear as a new command, next to all the others you already have.
17:02 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> so that looks about right then?
17:02 <Earthcrusher> that'd be perfect, that's exactly what i'm hoping for
17:03 Griatch Yes, that's the minimal CmdSet structure. If you (say) wanted to have *only* that command available when you are in the room, you could add a class variable `mergetype="Replace"`
17:04 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> ah, gotcha, gotcha
17:04 Griatch Then (maybe together with a higher priority), this CmdSet would overrule others in the stack.
17:04 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> and yeah that won't be necessary, they can sit there, look around, test emotes or w/e if they want, shouldn't be troublesome
17:04 <Earthcrusher> i'll probably eat these words later
17:05 Griatch You may want to block some things in a Chargen, such as ooc/ic.
17:05 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> oh of course, i already removed the defaults and implemented my own versions of those, so shouldn't be an ish
17:06 Griatch A nice way to do this is to make a catch-all override Command. Just make a command that you add to that cmdset with aliases for all the commands you want to block, and let the Command.func just echo an error message.
17:06 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> ooh
17:06 <Earthcrusher> i gotta write that down
17:08 Griatch There are CmdSet mergetypes to filter out commands too, should it come to that, but a catch-all Command is nice in that you can make a nicer error message (like "you cannot use that command while in chargen" or something)
17:08 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> oh that, that is very handy
17:08 <Earthcrusher> i appreciate it
17:10 Griatch The CmdSet system is very powerful; it allows for quite advanced effects without needing any custom code at all; but yeah it can be a little tricky to wrap one's head around at first :)
17:10 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> i'll get it sooner or later!
17:10 <Earthcrusher> i told myself i'd never need it but already i'm seeing how it saves time
17:11 <Earthcrusher> i came from the dev team of Iron Realms's Aetolia, where almost every command had to rely on checking for player permissions (if ply.is_god(3)), and i gotta remind myself that this isn't a codebase from 1998
17:11 Griatch It allows for implementing EvMenu, EvEditor etc all without any exceptions - it's all commands in structured CmdSets.
17:13 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> hey, a follow-up question, if you don't mind: how does "ndb" on an object work? what would be worthwhile to store there?
17:13 Griatch To be fair, I think most modern servers use simple functions for Commands to this day. I don't know if CmdSets is the save-all (it adds complexity) but it's pretty unique to Evennia.
17:15 @Earthcrusher It's easier to refer you to to the docs on that one:[…]vs-non-persistent
17:15 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> oh very good, thank you
17:16 Griatch Overall, the Attributes page covers a lot of important aspects about the .db/.ndb storage mechanism.
17:16 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> oh this is perfect
17:16 <Earthcrusher> in chargen, i want to temporarily store the player's desired name, species, etc. and not actually apply it until they're done, this is just what i need
17:17 <grungies1138> Griatch for the win!
17:17 <Earthcrusher> no joke
17:18 <grungies1138> now, not sure if you know this or not, but in a menu, you can use the menutree's ndb to store things onoly as long as the menu session exists
17:19 Griatch .ndb._menutree will go away once the menu closes.
17:19 DiscordBot <Earthcrusher> mhm, that's why i was asking, because in two instances i do store ndb data, but really i was just mindlessly following a tutorial
17:19 <Earthcrusher> always easier if i know just what the hell it is i'm touching
17:19 <grungies1138> yeah the menu session
17:20 Griatch As said, I rarely use the _menutree anymore, I prefer to pass data explicitly between nodes (as one of the **kwargs) going into each node function)
17:20 It used to be that _menutree was required, but EvMenu has improved in 0.9 so that my best practices have been updated :)
17:21 * Griatch afks, have to head home from the train

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