All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:20 | arifuzzaman | I am sorry for such question. Is openhatch project still active? If not, can anyone suggest me some other similar but currently active project? |
| 00:22 | HedgeMage | arifuzzaman: Openhatch has pretty much spun down at this point (see the link in the /topic of this channel), but I can try to help you get started in open source if you are looking for guidance. |
| 00:22 | arifuzzaman: What are you interested in? | |
| 00:25 | arifuzzaman | HedgeMage: I want to start contributing to some open source project. I am familiar with Java, Python, SQL, etc. People suggested me to look for projects that I feel interested in. But I am not getting anything useful. Then i found this openhatch project. But it's donw. :/ |
| 00:26 | HedgeMage | Well, what open source software do you use? That is usually a good place to start. |
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| 00:34 | arifuzzaman | HedgeMage: I was a Windows user. I have been using Ubuntu for few months. So currently most of the software I use are open source. I want some real software development experience. But I don't any software interesting that way. I mean I would try my best to contribute some well established project that is based on Python/Java especially Java. Could please enlighten me about the Mozilla? I don't find any channel for them in here, freenod |
| 00:34 | HedgeMage | Mozilla's channels are on irc.mozilla.org :) |
| 00:35 | You won't find much OSS written in Java... Java has both legal and logistical problems as a language. I think Apache Foundation still has 1-2 Java-based projects going. They are at apache.org | |
| 00:36 | Python is much more commonly used in open source. | |
| 00:38 | arifuzzaman | HedgeMage: What about python? I have an assumption that Java based projects are more well designed (in use of design patterns) because of it's statically typed nature. I don't know how correct I am. Would you give me some tips for finding a good project? |
| 00:39 | HedgeMage | arifuzzaman: This is generally not true, because of the people who hire java programmers... |
| 00:40 | Java programming is cheap, because most undergrads learn java so there are many java programmers. Java shops are more into getting features out the door fast, generally, than rigor in programming or giving their staff any kind of professional development. | |
| 00:41 | Java programmers are more likely to be one-language-only programmers, which makes them less skilled over the course of a career... that's isn't to say that java programmers *can't* learn other languages and advance, but their employers rarely support this, so the ones that continue learning are the stubborn ones. | |
| 00:41 | Python projects vary incredibly from absolute spaghetti code garbage to impressively well designed, including all the things in between. | |
| 00:41 | It's so widely used that it will probably always be that varied. | |
| 00:43 | Mind you, a part of my job is cleaning up other people's coding disasters, so I'm probably too opinionated on such things. :) | |
| 00:46 | arifuzzaman | So as a beginner, I should start with Python? One more thing is that I have found python community very large and extremely helpful. ...If I choose to do something valuable using python, where should I look for those projects? Now I am thinking to have visit in irc.mozilla.org. |
| 00:47 | HedgeMage | #python has lots of python developers in it. Otherwise, I could make some suggestions, but my interests are pretty focused on a few things, I don't know if you will find them interesting. |
| 00:48 | arifuzzaman | If you have time, please tell me what are those few things? |
| 00:49 | HedgeMage | I'm really focused on infrastructure software -- the stuff that makes the internet keep working -- and tools for building it. |
| 00:50 | NTPSec has a few Python parts... this is the secure fork of the system that tells cell phone, desktop computers, servers, routers, etc what time it is. | |
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| 00:50 | HedgeMage | Roundup is a system for building issue trackers in Python. It has a really good community, but I'm sad that it hasn't updated to Python 3 yet. An influx of volunteer power might help with that. |
| 00:51 | I'm not sure, but I think that the new software dev tool suite my guys at #icei are working on will be at least partially in Python. | |
| 00:51 | Also, we're working on a new communications platform with a Go back-end, but I think that the web front end and possibly the first desktop client will be in Python. | |
| 00:52 | The comms thing is called Hathi | |
| 00:54 | arifuzzaman: If any of those interest you, I'd be happy to introduce you around. Otherwise, there are many other python projects afoot in other corners of the internet. :) | |
| 00:57 | arifuzzaman | Wow! I am not sure if I am capable of understanding those network infrastructure tools. Do you think I might help with that Roundup project? |
| 00:57 | HedgeMage | Roundup would probably welcome your help. :) |
| 00:57 | arifuzzaman | What kind of help they might expect? |
| 00:58 | HedgeMage | Well, since you are new, good things that you can do are fix/update documentation, test things, or ask for simpler bugs to fix. |
| 00:59 | arifuzzaman | shouldn't I get the source-code and try understand the design? Where/how should I begin? |
| 00:59 | HedgeMage | Basically, show up, be polite, and do work. The senior devs should be able to guide you from there. |
| 01:00 | You can absolutely read through the source code, but I find that trying to use something, finding holes in the docs, etc. is usually an easier place to start. It gives context for when you read the code. | |
| 01:00 | I've been at this for years, and deal with a lot of the scarier code analysis tasks, and I rarely try to understand anything of non-trivial size before I've tried to build and run it. | |
| 01:03 | arifuzzaman | Are there any formal procedures or steps that I should follow? Like, knowing some technologies, libraries, beforehand. And should I contact you if I need help? |
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| 01:07 | HedgeMage | You are welcome to ping me on here |
| 01:07 | This page tells you about meeting the Roundup team: http://roundup.sourceforge.net/contact.html | |
| 01:07 | Learn what you need as you need it. I find that most people learn a new technology or process better when they have something to use it for. | |
| 01:08 | #roundup on irc.oftc.net is their channel | |
| 01:09 | it may be a little slow, since they have only a few developers, so you'll probably have to hang out there a while or use the mailing lists to get someone's attention. | |
| 01:10 | arifuzzaman | What IDE or tools do you use or I'll need? |
| 01:11 | HedgeMage | I avoid IDEs...they make you dependent on them and inflexible...it becomes harder to work without the crutches they provide. |
| 01:11 | The old-school editors are vim and emacs (I'm an emacs user) but both hove huge learning curves. Newer things like Sublime or Atom work just fine. | |
| 01:13 | arifuzzaman | I am sorry if I am irritating you. Let me roam around the mailing list and get familiarized about the project. Do you have any more suggestions? |
| 01:13 | HedgeMage | A couple of articles I wrote might interest you: https://binaryredneck.net/2017[…]orship-right-oss/ https://binaryredneck.net/2017[…]y-in-open-source/ |
| 01:14 | or they might not, but they are there if you want them :) | |
| 01:14 | arifuzzaman | Thank you so much. :) |
| 01:14 | HedgeMage | You are welcome. :) |
| 02:07 | pdurbin | arifuzzaman: welcome! Even though OpenHatch isn't as active as it once was, you're still quite welcome to hang out here. :) |
| 02:15 | HedgeMage: according to https://octoverse.github.com there's slightly more Java than Python on GitHub, though Javascript is quite a bit ahead of both of them. | |
| 02:18 | HedgeMage | pdurbin: I don't think that's a good measure of the OSS world as a whole. |
| 02:19 | pdurbin | HedgeMage: but you still stand by your "You won't find much OSS written in Java"? |
| 02:21 | HedgeMage | pdurbin: I do... There's lots of Java in the world, but only a small amount of it is open source. |
| 02:22 | pdurbin | HedgeMage: it sounds like no amount of data is going to convince you otherwise. |
| 02:22 | HedgeMage | I'm sure there's an amount of data that would, but Github stats won't be it...they appeal to specific subsets of developers and aren't a good sampling. |
| 02:22 | Also, not everything on Github is open source, by far. | |
| 02:23 | pdurbin | ok, I'm just glad to know that you do respond to data :) |
| 02:27 | HedgeMage | I just like good data. |
| 02:28 | pdurbin | sure, we all do |
| 02:32 | HedgeMage: I'd love to hear what you think about this data on open source at Harvard I published last week: http://dx.doi.org/10.7910/DVN/TJCLKP | |
| 02:54 | HedgeMage | pdurbin: Interesting, but what are 48 repos at a single institution meant to be representative of? |
| 02:56 | pdurbin | HedgeMage: I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you saying, "Who cares?" It's fine if you are. :) |
| 02:59 | HedgeMage | pdurbin: More like "what's it useful for?" |
| 03:00 | pdurbin | open source community building at Harvard, I guess |
| 03:01 | The list has grown to 73 repos. I keep merging pull requests as they come in. | |
| 03:03 | HedgeMage | That's cool, then. |
| 03:05 | pdurbin | There's nothing about contributors in the data. That requires separate API calls to GitHub for each repo. The numbers alone would be interesting but I'm also wondering how hard it would be to figure out the percentage of contributors that are women. Across open source, the percentage is low and I'd like to see it increase. |
| 03:05 | HedgeMage | That's something I won't get behind you on. |
| 03:05 | Boobs don't magically make a person a better software engineer. | |
| 03:06 | pdurbin | Uh |
| 03:06 | That's not what I'm saying. | |
| 03:09 | HedgeMage | I know, but it's about what it reduces to. BS politics. I work in software engineering, and I work in academia. I've been bitten by the "women in tech" movement snake too many times to have the least bit of sympathy for it. |
| 03:10 | Apologies if that's a bit too on the nose, I'm admittedly tired and cranky. Happy to debate it more diplomatically sometime if you're interested. | |
| 03:10 | pdurbin | You don't want at least roughly equal percentages of men and women in open source? |
| 03:13 | HedgeMage | I want individuals to choose their own careers, without being strong-armed from people who like pretty-looking charts and political tripe more than personal freedom and personal responsibility. |
| 03:13 | I see that you're not upset about the shortage of male nurses, or the shortage of female loggers. | |
| 03:14 | I'm tired of the petty, holier-than-thou manipulation and the ignorance of its fallout. | |
| 03:15 | pdurbin | You're certainly right that nursing attracts women and logging attracts men. And you're right that I'm not particularly concerned about that. |
| 03:16 | HedgeMage | So why? |
| 03:16 | Because programming is high-status? | |
| 03:16 | Because logging is dangerous and nursing exhausting? | |
| 03:16 | The women in tech movement isn't kind, it's manipulative and dangerous and anti-freedom. | |
| 03:18 | pdurbin | I have only nice things to say about this group: Harvard Women In Tech Group - https://wit.abcd.harvard.edu |
| 03:21 | HedgeMage | The mission is corrupt, it doesn't matter how nice and well-intentioned they are. Engineers shouldn't be divided and judged by their sex. |
| 03:21 | pdurbin | I'm not sure why I'm not concerned about percentages of women vs. men in nursing and logging. I guess I'd have to ruminate on it a bit. |
| 03:22 | HedgeMage | Nobody told you to be. People cried about an emergency, and it seemed logical that so many people would be upset only if there was something to it, and the people pushing this agenda put on a nice face (and often buy their own narratives, not realizing how despotic and discriminatory they are, and how much they undermine the very feminism they claim to champion) |
| 03:24 | Anyway, I said I was cranky. I can have a more diplomatic discussion later in the week when I've slept. | |
| 03:24 | It's a bit of a hot button issue for me, because I'm trying desperately to make my field better and these people are undermining its integrity with a smile. | |
| 03:25 | Goodnight, and thanks for thinking about the debate at least :) | |
| 03:25 | pdurbin | oh sure, I hope you feel better |
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