Time  Nick           Message
00:07 DiscordBot     <Darren> Windows is pretty darned reliable these days
00:07 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> not saying it's not.  Just that is the way of programming
00:09 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> anyway, about tags...
00:09 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> specifically searching for tags on Msg objects
00:26 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Are these John Wick movies comedies?
00:26 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> not intentionally
00:26 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Are you sure about that?
00:26 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> yes
00:27 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> At the end of the first one, the main bad guy's bodyguard was freaking out saying that he knew John would show up and kept asking if anybody had a gun he could use.
00:28 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> At the beginning of the second one, John goes to get his car and this boring other Russian character is telling the legend of John again. John gets his car but proceeds to wreck it a billion times, kills a bunch of guys and makes peace with the bad guy then drives away.
00:28 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> I've not seen the second or third
00:28 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I thought I was the only one who didn't care for the first.
00:29 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I'm only watching them again because all 3 are out (even though there's a 4th, and probably more).
00:29 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Well, will be a 4th.
00:29 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> It was entertaining.  I just haven't gotten around to it
00:29 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Then I am the only one who doesn't like them lol.
00:30 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The action is pretty cool, but beyond that I can't turn my brain off enough to enjoy it.
00:30 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> it's okay.
00:31 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> I',m exhausted and fighting with my wife.  I'm in a pretty mellow mood
00:33 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> That's the best time to fight, when you can't be bothered to care. 😎
01:04 DiscordBot     <Darren> I haven't seen any of them, either. It's got Nicholas Cage in it, right?
01:07 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> @BP-Santo Here, so you can stop asking if what you are doing is efficient and instead test it for yourself. 😛 https://github.com/evennia/evennia/wiki/Profiling
01:07 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I don't know, the first one doesn't have Nick in it.
01:10 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> On a semi-related note, I don't know if you'e ever seen the the original Mission Impossible, but it had almost no action at all. It was a slow, dark noir detective-like story. MI:2 had much more action than the first, but was still largely story driven. MI:3 IMO is the best of them all, because it had the perfect balance of action and story. Since then, they've been moving toward mindless action and less story.
01:12 DiscordBot     <Darren> Pretty much the only things that I watch anymore are documentaries. nature shows, etc
01:41 evenniacode    [wiki] kovitikus updated evennia/wiki: [edited]: Docs-refactoring (Docs refactoring) (https://github.com/evennia/evennia/wiki/Docs-refactoring)
01:46 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> @Darren https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1235800/
02:01 DiscordBot     <Darren> If it's Nat Geo I've seen it
02:03 DiscordBot     <Darren> Geez when did Wendy
02:03 DiscordBot     <Darren> wendy's get so expensive?! Thanks for your order, Darren! Paid with Apple Pay: Wendy's Total: $27.81
02:04 DiscordBot     <Darren> DoorDash ❤
02:04 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> When I worked for McDonalds in 2005, a Big Mac sandwich by itself was $2.50 and it's now $5.
02:04 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Add onto that your exuberant door-to-door delivery cost and yeah... what do you expect?
02:05 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I don't know what all you bought, but a single meal at any of these fast food joints is around $8-$10 depending on your location.
02:06 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> 2 meals plus delivery fee, easily $27.
02:06 bkero          So order from the dollar menu :)
02:06 DiscordBot     <Darren> Double with cheese, med fries and drink, and my room mate got some kind of bbq burger thing and a  large fry
02:06 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Or just buy food and cook it yourself at home like a real human being.
02:06 DiscordBot     <Darren> What is this, 2005?
02:07 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I never eat out.
02:07 DiscordBot     <Darren> Do you not like going out?
02:07 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> It's been so many years since I've purchased prepared food that I can't recall the last time.
02:08 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I'm poor, it's insanely expensive, and nowhere near as good as the food I can make for myself. Plus I have gained many dietary restrictions.
02:08 DiscordBot     <Darren> I didn't get off until 8. It was 8:30 by the time I got home and I was tired and didn't feel like cooking
02:08 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I recall now the last time I ate out anywhere, Five Guys triple cheeseburger about 4 years ago.
02:09 DiscordBot     <Darren> The last time I ate at Five Guys I ended up with a major gout attacked that lasted for 6 weeks
02:09 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> That's not their fault. Meat and gout don't exactly go well together.
02:10 DiscordBot     <Darren> It's beef that is the probblem. The fact that I can eat Wendy's burgers with no issues, should tell you something 🙂
02:11 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> That they aren't made of beef?
02:11 DiscordBot     <Darren> It sure does taste like beef
02:13 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Funny, because of how much they tout being all real 100% never frozen beef patties.
02:14 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Seems like our food supply is largely comprised of soy, corn, and sugar. Its no wonder we are amidst a serious health crisis in this country.
02:14 DiscordBot     <Darren> That's one of the reasons, yes
02:15 DiscordBot     <Darren> Another is how processed everything is. All the things that made it wholesome are stripped out in the process to the point where they have to add artificial vitamins and stuff back to it
02:15 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I think I'm on the cusp of making my entire diet just scrambled eggs only.
02:16 DiscordBot     <Darren> I like scrambled eggs but I don't think I would want to live on a diet of just eggs
02:16 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> It's not a matter of want.
02:16 DiscordBot     <Darren> Now, toss in some chorizo and potatoes and we have a deal
02:17 DiscordBot     <Darren> That's not a healthy diet. You need balanced nutritition, not to mention, some fiber
02:17 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Everything I eat makes me ill. I had some saltines with peanut butter recently and became seriously ill afterward. I can't eat wheat, corn, soy, sugar, spices, rice, beans, fruit, vegetables... well lol nothing really.
02:18 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Fiber makes me extremely ill.
02:18 DiscordBot     <Darren> Wow
02:18 DiscordBot     <Darren> That sounds horrible
02:19 DiscordBot     <Darren> I hope you have seen a doctor about this
02:19 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I'm pretty certain I have ulcerative colitis, but I haven't gone to get it checked yet. I had to figure it out for myself, because all the complaints I've made to my general practitioner falls on deaf ears. He's useless.
02:20 DiscordBot     <Darren> Most of them are
02:20 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> He just comes in, askes me if I need more drugs and takes my vitals, then moves on with his day. Anything I tell him either results in him nodding or shrugging.
02:21 DiscordBot     <Darren> They all do that
02:21 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yep, I'm convinced they are glorified drug dealers.
02:21 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> As far as things making me ill. I ate some saltines and felt suicidal afterward lol, crazy.
02:22 DiscordBot     <Darren> Mine likes to order tests that don't have anything to do with the reason why I came to see her
02:22 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> LOL yeah, they gotta find ways to maximize profit on every patient.
02:22 DiscordBot     <Darren> She wants a stress test. She wants a colonoscopy.
02:23 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Ask her to order an IQ test while she's at it. 😎
02:23 DiscordBot     <Darren> She's actually pretty smart. She's a heart specialist who does double duty as a GP
02:24 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The fact is that medicine is a lot like information technology, there's no way possible for someone to know everything, because there's too much information to know.
02:24 DiscordBot     <Darren> I know
02:26 DiscordBot     <Darren> Mine is constantly griping about her patience consulting "Dr Google". I was like, don't you /want/ your patients to be informed?
02:26 DiscordBot     <Darren> patients*
02:26 DiscordBot     <Darren> Apparently educated patients are bad for business
02:26 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> That's the stupidest thing I ever heard from doctors. Newsflash, if you were doing your job I wouldn't have to google anything.
02:28 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Especially with the recent health issues I've had and the sheer lack of competency from the medical professionals... I've literally had to diagnose myself several times over the past few years to realize what's wrong with me.
02:28 DiscordBot     <Darren> It wounds like you need to see a new doctor
02:28 DiscordBot     <Darren> sounds
02:29 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I would, but I've gone all over the county. All of them are just as incompetent, including the specialists. I saw an immunologist for 2 years and she couldn't figure out what's going on.
02:29 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> As you may be aware, there's a limit to how many doctors are within reasonable distance from your house that also take your insurance.
02:30 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> As far as general practitioners, I've given up and just accepted that I have to figure things out for myself and demand my GP do what I tell them.
02:31 DiscordBot     <Darren> Hopefully you are correct in your self-diagnosis
02:33 slackfriarzen1 <friarzen> Kovitikus, ignore your gp and just ask for a referral to see a GI specialist, preferably one with connections to a teaching hospital.  So far, those are the only people that have really had a clue about UC and/or crohns.
02:34 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yep, I had an endoscopy a few years back and he's a good gastroenterologist. I'm not sure I even need a referral, but I'll get one from my GP anyways.
02:34 DiscordBot     <Darren> Those are fun
02:35 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I dunno, they put me under some light anesthesia for it.
02:35 slackfriarzen1 <friarzen> They will pretty much want to put you on Remicade to start out with, which is hideously expensive unless you have AAA+ insurance.
02:35 DiscordBot     <Darren> I complained about difficulty swallowing and neck pain for years. They finally did an endoscopy and still didn't find anything. Turns out it was caused by cervical arthritis, which they never considered because of my age (I was  like 34-35 at the time)
02:35 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Oh, I have the best insurance. I pay $1 copay at most.
02:36 DiscordBot     <Darren> I'm envious
02:36 DiscordBot     <Darren> I pay $35 for a doctor visit, $50 for a specialist
02:36 DiscordBot     <Darren> I have sucky insurance though (BlueEPO, Blue Cross and Blue Shield)
02:37 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I'm not sure I want to take any medications though, they are never without complications or possible side effects.
02:37 slackfriarzen1 <friarzen> I have excellent insurance as well, but, because Remicade is an injected drug each infusion is like $20k in "Retail Hospital Costs"
02:38 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I'm pretty sure I'll just end up eating only scrambled eggs, as that's the only thing that doesn't make me extremely ill.
02:38 DiscordBot     <Darren> Can you eat any kind of meat? Chicken maybe?
02:39 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Too dry and fibrous. UC is inflammation in the intestines, so anything that could further irritate it makes it worse.
02:40 DiscordBot     <Darren> Applecause? Oatmeal? Cream of Wheat?
02:40 DiscordBot     <Darren> Applesauce*
02:40 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> No, hell no, and hell no.
02:41 DiscordBot     <Darren> Man
02:41 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Also, just eating chicken could probably lead to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning
02:41 DiscordBot     <minty_cream> I come bearing a cool gift! https://kinostl.github.io/rp-schedule-tool/
02:41 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Mmmm, minty cream, tasty.
02:42 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Hey, this site wants to steal my Discord info!
02:43 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The reason I say that I'll end up eating only scrambled eggs is because eggs are pack with all the best things you need.
02:43 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I could be like Jordan Peterson and so many others who are on the carnivore diet and only eat steak and salt and water.
02:43 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> But I'm too poor to just eat steak every day.
02:43 DiscordBot     <minty_cream> :p its a tool for Discord so I made it operate off of Discord as much as possible
02:44 DiscordBot     <Darren> MMm steak. My gout would kill me if I did that. I would be unable to walk.
02:44 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I don't know if eggs contribute to gout.
02:45 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> But if I ended up getting gout as well as my current issues... well then I might as well just lay down and die haha.
02:45 DiscordBot     <Darren> Nah
02:46 DiscordBot     <Darren> There's always hope as long as you're still breathing
02:47 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> So, I was the first to submit anything of real substance to the wiki refactoring discussion, anybody got any thoughts on what I suggested?
02:48 DiscordBot     <Darren> I didn't see what you suggested
02:48 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> https://github.com/evennia/evennia/wiki/Docs-refactoring#kovitikus-sept-11-2019
02:48 DiscordBot     <Darren> I don't sue the wiki, I look at the source directly because the wiki is out of date and missing stuff
02:48 DiscordBot     <Darren> use*
02:49 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I use both, but mostly rely heavily on the module documentation.
02:49 DiscordBot     <Darren> Being familiar with the system helps a lot
02:50 DiscordBot     <Darren> I've been working with this codebase for almost a year, now.
02:50 DiscordBot     <Darren> Still have much to learn!
02:50 DiscordBot     <Darren> Yikes, 11pm already
02:51 DiscordBot     <Darren> Sucks getting off from work real late. You got no time to do stuff before you have to sleep 😦
02:51 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I've come to the realization that I don't care if my game ever has players. Just the opportunity to learn Python and build something with my creative energy is enough.
02:52 DiscordBot     <Darren> I'm very much in agreement there
02:52 DiscordBot     <Darren> Evennia has taught me Python and Django and that made it totally worth the time in invested in it
02:52 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> That whole discussion about getting new players into MU* is depressing. I mean, how far can the genre go when nobody can even agree on what the genre is?
02:53 DiscordBot     <Darren> It peaked 20 years ago
02:53 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> People are still stuck in that 20 year long debate about what the genre is and what part of it is important.
02:53 DiscordBot     <Darren> Still has enough life left in it to warrant investing work in a game, IMO. It depends on the game though
02:53 DiscordBot     <Darren> RPGs seems to still have some life. MUDs are pretty much dead.
02:54 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I'd like to just go full on ahead into making a combat oriented game with no RP, like a Diablo 2, but honestly it doesn't seem like anybody would play that.
02:54 DiscordBot     <Darren> When games that have been open for 20+ years, with professional developers and decades worth of content, can't find players, then what hope is there for someone just starting out
02:55 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The reason I figured maybe I shouldn't care if anybody plays it, because it may lay the foundation for the game I actually want to create in 2D and I can learn/prototype it with Evennia.
02:55 DiscordBot     <Earthcrusher> MUDs aren't dead everyone's just playing Achaea
02:55 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I think the hope there lies in the fact that those 20 year old games are full of baggage they can't seem to break free from.
02:56 DiscordBot     <Darren> You might be right. I don't play MUDs so I am only seeing things from a distance
02:56 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I have a unique position in that I've only ever played 1 MUD and most of that I would never replicate, so I could possibly make something free from influence.
02:56 DiscordBot     <Darren> You've only played one
02:56 DiscordBot     <Darren> ?
02:56 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> TEC.
02:57 DiscordBot     <Darren> Oh that's right. We've talked about this before.
02:57 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yep.
02:57 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I've "done the intro tutorial" for a few others, but never made it further than 10 minutes in.
02:58 DiscordBot     <Darren> TEC is more of a hybrid MUD/RPG though, isn't it?
02:58 DiscordBot     <Darren> I played a little many years ago but I don't remember any of it
02:58 DiscordBot     <Darren> I think I do remember having to use a custom client
02:59 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I asked someone about and they said it's more of a hybrid MUD/MOO.
03:00 DiscordBot     <Darren> Appropriate since it's made with ColdMUD, which is the spiritual successor to MOO
03:00 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> But again, semantics of these stupid genres aside, it is what it is. The game's administration and playerbase is largely in denial of the fact that it's no longer story driven since Scott left 20 years ago and people care more about the combat than they will admit.
03:00 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I think it's actually Cold C.
03:00 DiscordBot     <Darren> ColdC is the language. The server is ColdMUD, aka Genesis
03:01 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Apparently TEC has legitimate distance measurement and "physics" so to speak or something.
03:01 DiscordBot     <Darren> I don't know. I remember Scott bragging about some of the features 20 years ago
03:01 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I remember them briefly discussing the possibility of making TEC into a 2D game.
03:01 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> It had a little traction at first, but then quickly was abandoned.
03:02 DiscordBot     <Darren> It would be difficult to do
03:02 DiscordBot     <Darren> Not impossible
03:03 DiscordBot     <Darren> To do that you would need professional artists and animators and those aren't cheap
03:03 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Well, I think that was discussed way back before Scott left.
03:03 DiscordBot     <Darren> Sounds about right. Skotos had a bunch of moderately successful games at the time
03:04 DiscordBot     <Darren> "TEC and Castle Marrach or however that is spelled. being the two dominant ones
03:05 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yeah.
03:05 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> As I said before, Skotos is closing down though.
03:05 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> In about 3 months IIRC.
03:05 DiscordBot     <Darren> I suppose there's not much money in it anymore
03:06 DiscordBot     <Darren> There's 1 or 2 MUDs which dominate the rest are mostly empty
03:06 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> There is when you sell people storypoints for $300 a month.
03:06 DiscordBot     <Darren> At lest from what I have seen
03:06 DiscordBot     <Darren> Yeah shit like that is why Skotos has such a bad rep now
03:06 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> But, Shannon has admitted his "collection of games" is a failure, which is why he's giving up and moving on.
03:06 DiscordBot     <Darren> That couldn't have been easy for him
03:07 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Hard for me to say without insulting him and I got in trouble here the last time I went down that road. 🙂
03:07 DiscordBot     <Darren> Yeah G wants us to stay positive
03:08 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Reminds me of that song "Bright and Shiny" the cult from Bubble Boy (2001) sang.
03:10 DiscordBot     <Darren> On the bright side, TEC might actually have a future if it falls into the right hands
03:10 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I think Shade is taking it over.
03:10 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Nobody knows who is taking it over, their name is Siddhe... but people suspect it's Shade.
03:11 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Which is hilarious for anybody to think she's qualified. The only reason Shade gained as much influence as she did was because she was Scott's RL friend.
03:12 DiscordBot     <Darren> Yeah the same sort of thing happens on MUSHes all the time
03:12 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> So far the playerbase in the "Unofficial Discord" is not happy. They are getting the same empty promises and nonsense they've had for the past 20 years.
03:12 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The curtain that separates the players from the administration is destroying that game and the admin don't want to give any ground. They are stuck in the old ways.
03:12 DiscordBot     <Darren> I feel that you could very easily do a TEC style game with Evennia
03:13 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> That was what I'm aiming for. But, the truth is that there's many flaws with TEC. The strongest aspect of it is how little bells and whistles it puts on its text. It's simplistic and beautiful.
03:13 DiscordBot     <Darren> Considering it's all done with Ctext, is even more amazing
03:14 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Just the wording, I mean.
03:14 DiscordBot     <Darren> Oh
03:15 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Like how your room descriptions are over-stylized with dashes and labels and such, whereas TEC lets the room speak for itself.
03:15 DiscordBot     <Darren> Labels?
03:15 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> https://i.imgur.com/9PuBxo0.png
03:15 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I don't remember, but when you showed your exits and room description, it felt a bit much.
03:15 DiscordBot     <Darren> Arx is kinda the same way
03:16 DiscordBot     <Darren> Mine's typical for a MUSH-like
03:16 DiscordBot     <Darren> I actually use a lot less color and stuff that others
03:16 DiscordBot     <Darren> than*
03:16 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yeah, I kinda figured that. I'm not bashing your style, just pointing out how different it is from the simple nature of TEC's style.
03:16 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Which is one of the aspects I think TEC does well and I'd like to emulate.
03:17 DiscordBot     <Darren> I used the plain approach you're describing on other games
03:17 DiscordBot     <Darren> In fact I used it on my first couple of attempts at Evennia games
03:17 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Is it just feature creep where you keep thinking there needs to be more dashes here and there or did you find it didn't work at all?
03:18 DiscordBot     <Darren> I assume by dashes you mean the headers and footers
03:18 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I feel like a lot of people end up overdesigning stuff. The more you stare at something the more you lose sight of what it should be.
03:18 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yeah all the -------------------------------
03:20 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> If you have a sci-fi space game though, all that may fit the theme better.
03:20 DiscordBot     <Darren> The point of those is to "frame" output
03:20 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Robots, technology, it's all structured and framed.
03:21 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Since there are no graphics or animation, the look of your game imparts the feel.
03:21 DiscordBot     <Darren> Well it /is/ for a sci-fi game
03:21 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The immersion lies in the structure of the text.
03:21 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yeah, that's why I said your design probably fits the theme well.
03:22 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I also don't have any experience with other text games other than TEC, so I'm extremely biased and ignorant. 🙂
03:24 DiscordBot     <Darren> AresMUSH (this is like Evennia only written in Ruby) looks like this: https://imgur.com/a/7HquZBV
03:29 DiscordBot     <Darren> You can always do @options screenreader=true and eliminate all of the colors and line drawing chars
03:30 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yep.
03:30 DiscordBot     <Darren> Mine will eventually have a way to switch between layouts
03:30 DiscordBot     <Darren> Like @ctype on MOO
03:31 DiscordBot     <Darren> You'll also be able to pick between several  pre-defined color palettes and a custom palette
05:29 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> @Darren https://i.imgur.com/bgrfKdq.png
11:04 DiscordBot     <Lysaer> Anyone seen this in the olc when editing stuff? File "/home/evennia/evennia/evennia/utils/evmenu.py", line 998, in options_formatter     desc_string = ": %s" % desc if desc else "" TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting
11:11 DiscordBot     <Lysaer> Looks like it's because desc is a tuple - in my case ('tree', 'db_prototype')
11:12 DiscordBot     <Lysaer> and it's expecting a string at that point.
11:16 DiscordBot     <Lysaer> yeah... optionlist that is passed from prototypes/menus.py:2433 is [('1', ('tree', 'db_prototype')), ('2', '14')]
11:21 DiscordBot     <Lysaer> Should be able to reproduce buy tagging a prototype something in olc, save, and go back in to prototype tags again.
11:21 DiscordBot     <Lysaer> (on latest master)
11:47 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Open an issue about that on the github so it can be addressed.
11:47 DiscordBot     <Lysaer> Yeah doing that now.
11:52 evenniacode    [issues] blongden opened issue #1918 in evennia: TypeError when editing tags on a prototype in the olc (https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/1918)
13:14 slackfriarzen1 <friarzen> Whee...nothing like being able to put xkcd comic urls into my exceptions.... https://xkcd.com/2200/
13:14 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> heh I saw that
13:18 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> Welcome
13:36 evenniacode    [issues] arumford opened issue #1919 in evennia: Cannot search tags on Msg objects (https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/1919)
13:55 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Grungies, Friarzen, Griatch and anybody else able to read my comments on the wiki refactoring and let me know your thoughts? https://github.com/evennia/evennia/wiki/Docs-refactoring#kovitikus-sept-11-2019
13:55 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> Maybe later, I have a very busy work day ahead
13:55 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> Sorry
13:56 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> NP, I just meant in general, not necessarily immediately.
14:38 DiscordBot     <xJake> I disagree with the formatting portion at the end.
14:39 DiscordBot     <xJake> You cannot say there is a "good" way to format when it is all by personal preference. The wiki isn't there to tell people how to program up to random-internet-guy's standards.
14:42 DiscordBot     <xJake> That said, I understand that wasn't really what you were getting at there and it was just something that caught my eye.
15:06 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> @Kovitikus  https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#comments
15:10 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Easier to read format I meant.
15:11 Griatch        I think those are good suggestions. Having a space after # is actually in PEP8 anyway :)
15:12 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> Griatch, did you see my comments yesterday about searching tags in Msgs?
15:12 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> It also says capitalization after the # for the first letter and followed by a period. But, that wasn't really my focus there. I was trying to show the concept of putting some spacing between each example so that they don't smush together vertically.
15:12 Griatch        Whereas a TOC would be nice, I fear it would be hard to maintain. Don't think github wiki supports an auto-TOC - if so we could add it; otherwise I fear it would be hard to keep up-to-date.
15:13 Griatch        grungies: Is there a ticket?
15:13 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> yes.  I added it today
15:13 Griatch        Then I will see it :)
15:13 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> just hoping I was doing somethign wrong. 🙂
15:14 Griatch        Can't really comment more right now, busy with other stuff, alas
15:14 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> of course. 🙂
15:21 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> As for the Table of Contents, I don't think it is auto-generated using markdown on the page. There is a drop-down menu to switch the formatting to MediaWiki, which does let you auto-generate a table of contents, but that may be going too far by forcing a change that significant across the site.
15:24 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Maintaining a table of contents may not be 100% uptime, but the honest truth is that neither are most of the links presented. When I started working with Evennia, very recently, there were a surprising number of outdated links that I had to fix. Maintaining these things is just part of the process.
15:27 Griatch        Overall, the reason for not going into code-specific detail in all systems is really because it's very hard to keep things up-to-date with changing code; so some parts describe the general concepts rather than pointing to specific code locations, for example.
15:31 Griatch        Maintaining such a large body of docs as we have means trying to not make it harder on oneself than it has to be.
15:44 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Code-specific detail, are you referring to the quick reference guide suggestion?
15:45 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> AKA a cheatsheet*.
15:46 Griatch        No, I think that's a good idea; I'm more thinking in general; specifying complete, full arguments to functions and the like (not something you requested but which has also come up).
15:46 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Yeah I would dig full arguments for functions
15:46 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> A complete list of all methods + all arguments explained
15:46 Griatch        The hardest parts to keep up-to-date in running text are exactly those things.
15:47 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> But could be in the form of just quoting docstrings if that stuff is in the docstring
15:47 Griatch        So that's why we have the API
15:47 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Sometimes its hard to find the relevant method and the docstring does not explain what the arguments do
15:47 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I do use the API extensively when I need to dive deeper into the code.
15:47 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> I mostly search on github, din't get to use the api yet
15:47 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I find it to be the most valuable tool I have at my disposal.
15:47 Griatch        The API docs are auto-generated and can thus keep up-to-date with code easier; but I need to rework the generator for that a bit I think, it is not always as consistent as I'd hope.
15:47 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The github is the same thing, only faster really.
15:48 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I only use the generated API to click through to the code itself, so...
15:48 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Griatch: I think expanding the docstrings would be a worthwhile first step 🙂
15:48 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Just looking through them an updating them
15:48 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> But sometimes the API is useful for looking at the overall structure of a class.
15:48 Griatch        BP-Santo: The docstrings in-code? In what sense?
15:48 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Sometimes I had trouble understanding what an argument does
15:49 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> But I dint wrote those down, I just know they are out there
15:49 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> or an arg missing from docstring
15:49 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> There where some commits to update the docstrings lately - so more of that would be sweet 😄
15:49 Griatch        Args missing from docstrings would be a bad thing; those should always be in-sync. Some of the worst bits are the hook-list overviews though, I should really remove those from docstrings.
15:50 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Sometimes if there is a wrapper, it does not explain the args so have to chase down whatever its wrapping
15:50 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Now its easy for me in general but when I was starting out it was a bit difficult at times
15:50 Griatch        People should really read the auto-generated docs or the code itself because maintaining the lists of hook-methods at the top of a class etc is a nightmare.
15:50 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Ya, I go straight to code nowadays 🙂
15:51 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> I removed some of the docstrings from the gamedir cause it was making it hard for me to keep those updated
15:51 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yeah, you stand no chance of understanding the context of how something is used unless you can at least attempt to read through the code and understand the flow of things.
15:51 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> I am a bit pedanting like that
15:51 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> *pedantic
15:51 Griatch        The policy is that private methods (starting with _) don't need docstrings, whereas private ones do. I think that's helt pretty well throughout.
15:51 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I removed all docstrings from the game directory because it's pointless waste of space IMO, when I can instead just go look at the Evennia code.
15:52 Griatch        It's a balance to be struck there, for sure
16:05 DiscordBot     <xJake> How is everyone?
16:13 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I was storing some gallon sized jugs of spring water in my living room closet and apparently one of them was leaking, so I had to take everything out of the closet and clean like a madman.
16:13 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Other than that, I guess I'm doing fine.
16:18 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Just finished John Wick 2, which was better than the first IMO. It ended on a fun note, so I'm looking forward to the 3rd which I just booted up.
16:19 Griatch        In the end I think everyone in that world is either a mobster or an assassin ...
16:20 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Hehe. I chuckled when dudes with guns just pop out of every corner, ready to be killed by John.
16:21 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The 2nd movie is starting to turn into a new version of The Matrix it feels like.
16:21 Griatch        At some point it becomes so over the top I get a '300' vibe from it - it's so serious it's not serious
16:21 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Without all the technology aspect, but pretty much the same.
16:21 Griatch        Neo is even in it
16:22 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I started to notice that they are making fun of the action movie tropes. If you pay enough attention, you can tell they are purposefully being ridiculous.
16:23 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Well, Lawrence Fishbourne is in the 2nd movie as well, so there's that too. Again, I think they are subtly poking fun at the genre. At first I thought it was just stupid and they took themselves seriously, but now I realize they are brilliant about it.
16:33 DiscordBot     <Darren> @Kovitikus Do you only watch bad movies 🙂
16:33 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I've seen some pretty horrible movies.
16:33 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> This isn't even close to the worst.
16:33 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I just watch a ton of movies in general, so yeah.
16:34 DiscordBot     <Darren> Scary how desensitized you have become :p
16:34 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I did say that I didn't like the first  John Wick. I wasn't really planning on watching anymore of them, but I decided to give it a whirl.
16:46 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> It really feels like Keanu Reeves has spent his whole life training to play the role of John Wick. This is his legacy.
16:46 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> There's videos going around showing his training with firearms and the dude is god-like in his dedication.
16:54 DiscordBot     <Darren> Oh it's Keanu. Why was I thinking it was Nicholas Cage
16:58 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Because Ole Saint Nick there is the face of terrible movies.
17:00 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I watched a recent movie of his where he plays a guy named Joe. Man, I wish I had that 2 hours of my life back.
17:00 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Synopsis: Joe meets a mother who can contact spirits when suffocating. Her daughter is dying when Joe helps the mother spiritually contact the daughter and save her. Unfortunately, the spirit in the daughter's body is now that of Joe's dead wife.
17:00 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Between Worlds (2018) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7295450
17:03 DiscordBot     <Darren> That does sound bad
17:04 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The only good thing that came out of it was that I learned of Gold Zebra and more specifically the song Back in the Dust. Good music. https://youtu.be/233sQSV6V7M
17:04 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> It was the ending credits song.
17:07 DiscordBot     <Darren> Off to work!
17:09 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Do you whistle while you work?
17:11 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Hey Griatch, if I want to create a new room for every account as their home location, should I do that inside at_account_creation where all the other attributes get initialized? Also, I guess I can't make a batchcode file for it, because it seems like batchcode is only executable through the @batchcode command?
17:18 DiscordBot     <Darren> I do not
17:29 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I'm also thinking I'll have to import create_room, since the account level create method is designed for something else entirely.
17:29 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Errr, create_object probably.
17:49 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> yeah, then you pass it the typeclass
17:49 DiscordBot     <xJake> @Kovitikus Attach create_object to the at_creation hook on the character typeclass
17:50 DiscordBot     <xJake> And have it build a room when a character is made, and force the .db.home value on the character to the newly generated room dbref
17:51 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I don't want to do that because I'll have more than one character. The only time I want it to run this is when the first "account level" character is made.
17:51 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I did set the home to the new room and it looks like the room was made, but when I logged in it didn't work out, so I probably have to set location as well.
17:51 DiscordBot     <xJake> Oh. Then do the same thing but with the account typeclass.
17:52 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Late to the party but gots to say: I really enjoyed JW 1
17:52 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Dint liked either sequel tbh
17:52 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> *like
17:52 DiscordBot     <xJake> Dirty fix: add move_to on login to home location.
17:52 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> I'm academically curious as the purpose of each character getting their own room
17:52 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Hmmm...
17:52 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yeah, because the setting home location and current location didn't work. The new account character still ended up in Limbo.
17:53 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> There are hooks in the default character typeclass that do the moving into home etc.
17:53 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Might need to double check how they work - I overloaded all of em locally
17:53 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> do Accounts have a location?  I thought only Characters did
17:53 DiscordBot     <xJake> I don't believe so.
17:53 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I'm making it so that each account has a "soul character" that the player uses to "craft" their character's bodies in a sort of workshop, before they possess them and enter the gameworld. @grungies1138
17:54 DiscordBot     <xJake> You're going to have to make the soul character a puppetable object and have it sentinel to the room you create, then.
17:54 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yeah, the game already makes a character by default when you first make a new account, so long as Multisession Mode is < 2.
17:54 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Oh, that's what I did wrong, duh.
17:54 DiscordBot     <xJake> You need a second one.
17:54 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I was setting account as location and home, not the character it made.
17:55 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Nah, the auto generated character works fine.
17:55 DiscordBot     <xJake> How are you going to handle the separate "soul character"?
17:55 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The character made by the account creation method will be their soul character.
17:55 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> It's like their "ooc form".
17:55 DiscordBot     <xJake> Oh. So it isn't a typeclass. I see.
17:56 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Nah, but I can easily edit the account creation method to change the character's default typeclass.
17:56 DiscordBot     <xJake> nods
17:57 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> You pull a fresh head from a giant glass jar and begin stitching it to the body.
17:57 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Hehe.
17:57 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Mad scientist Frankenstein level character creation. 🙂
17:57 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> that's all 'atmosphere'.  In m y Paranoia game, I play it like you are about to wake up from CLoning and you get to choose traits on your clone.
17:58 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yep, I want to set the atmosphere right away.
17:59 DiscordBot     <xJake> Mine is going to be like Morrowind. Dude asks you a few questions about your personality and then tosses you in the game. I don't want people spending a million hours in creation or they'll never stay long enough to experience the game.
17:59 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The character creation I'm going for will be simple to start out with, then as you gain more account points you can buy additional options and start to deck out your workshop.
17:59 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Allowing for more advanced char gen and decoration options.
18:00 DiscordBot     <xJake> That's a good way to go about it.
18:00 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> It's all about making it easy for a noob to get into the game, but allowing veteran players more options.
18:02 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> Yeah I have a fully randomized character generation on that game that will get you on the play grid in under a minute if you know what you are doing
18:04 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I assume that similar to my game, Grungies expects players to die often enough that the first character isn't one of those things you design to keep for 12 years.
18:07 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> heh indeed
18:07 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> that's why each player starts with 6 clones or 'lives'
18:08 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> My general idea is that the player evolves so no big decisions have to be made early on
18:08 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> I mean the character
18:09 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> These are all great ideas for making it simple, but allowing room to develop.
18:09 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> my star wars game is more complex for sure.
18:09 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> there are, in some places, hundreds of options to work through
18:09 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> I want to hide complexity, part of the game is exploring and discovering it
18:09 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Have you ever heard of big corporations like Disney going after a MUD for using their IP?
18:10 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Legends of the Jedi, I asked around and they said they've had no issues.
18:10 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> I've looked into attribnbution
18:10 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Anybody can go after anybody for anything really but if there is no profit made there should be no issues
18:10 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> I've heard that Disney is pretty particular
18:10 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yeah, but it's not JUST about the profit sometimes. They do like to protect their IP for other reasons.
18:10 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> best and cheapest move for you is to create a good attribution of the IP
18:11 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> They might want to but they can't - at that point it's just you being pressured
18:11 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Do you think that bars you from ever accepting money for the MUD?
18:11 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> I would not accept money for a derivative work yeah
18:11 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Why I am working on my own IP
18:11 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> I would not ever unless it was an original IP
18:11 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> They can request a takedown from the server provider and take  you to court and bury you under paperwork if they want.
18:11 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> However you can make a mud about Yoda having a love affair with Goku as they fly The Enterprise and it should be fine (terms and conditions apply)
18:11 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Heh, yeah, plus it's more fun to create something new.
18:11 DiscordBot     <Calades> For something licky Mickey Mouse? Yes. For something like Thor? No.
18:12 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> You can make a mud about mickey mouse
18:12 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> O hey buddy.
18:12 DiscordBot     <Calades> Couldn't charge for it though is what I'm saying. Thor on the other hand is appropriated, and comes originally from norse mythology.
18:12 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Calades and I were discussing this last night and he said Squaresoft once went after a MUD.
18:12 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Anybody can sue anybody for anything but it rarely goes anywhere so the general idea is - you don't want to mess with powerfull people ofcourse
18:13 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> We had a client who got a cease and desist from Cray Supercomputers
18:13 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> He started panicking - people are like taht but its mostly in their heads
18:13 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Cause he was too smart and he made the supercomputer look bad?
18:13 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Naw I can't go into details but it was just bollocks in general
18:13 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Haha, yeah ok.
18:13 DiscordBot     <Calades> I don't know if they went after it or not. I said I saw a mud that went out of its way to declare itself unofficial. 😄
18:14 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> It might be important to not advertise though
18:14 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Basically you are not supposed to trick someone into thinking your bdsm Mickey Mouse mud is an official Disney Product
18:15 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Can't use their logos to advertise etc.
18:15 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> The problem is with the tricking of the "average person" as it is usually put forth
18:16 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> When things are similar what is being determined often is that "average person" situation
18:16 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I'll call my adult game Mockey Mouse then.
18:16 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> A ha see that won't really help you much
18:16 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Thats what people often confuse, they think they can't do Mickey Mouse but can do Mockey Mouse - the idea is you can't pretend you are Disney
18:16 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yeah, I've seen information regarding the idea that it's too close.
18:16 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Changing a letter is not enough 🙂
18:17 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> But you can have a club for fans of Mickey Mouse and mickey mouse fanfiction I would argue in most jurisdictions just don't use the logos, don't pretend like its an official thing.
18:17 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Don't start a company that owns your derivative IP etc.
18:18 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> The problem is with trying to pass a fake as genuine - if you are not trying to do that then that whole angle can't be effectively argued
18:19 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Unless you live in China, then by all means do whatever you want.
18:19 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> You can make Parmesan style cheesebut can't make your own Parmegiano Regiano in a similar way - the problem is with confusing the consumer that you are making the "real deal" when you are not located in the correct locale
18:19 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> 🙂
18:19 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Yeah China is really funny like that
18:19 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> They have patent offices, we sometimes deal with them
18:19 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Cause clients want to patent things in China
18:19 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> People are silly like that :p
18:20 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> In the US you guys have fair use etc.
18:20 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> yeah
18:21 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Where the scary stuff comes from is basically very young people not understanding they cannot make youtube videos basically made out of other peoples actual works.
18:21 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> So then it blows out of proportion on the internet and everybody is scared - on our swmud someone mentiones disney now and then
18:22 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Disney is so powerful that it scares me. They pretty much own everything now.
18:22 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> You cannot even patent an idea, it has to be an actual technical solution, described and with technical drawings and very broad patents can be invalidated very easily too so being worried about someone patenting "a device to play video games" is also not worth ones time imho
18:23 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Remember those React Brothers who tried to patent reaction videos? LOL
18:23 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Most of our clients are people being chased by someone who wants to unfairly push them out of the market and then we invalidate the patents of the assholes and they end up with nothing 😄
18:23 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> They were met with the fury of the Internet.
18:24 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Yeah it's more a PR thing and a personal thing I would say for most people - you don't want to mess with disney cause they are a big corp but you also don't want to mess with that crazy neighbour so yeah for sure best to be carefull just it's not all so bad 🙂
18:25 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> But ya, you make a derivative work its always going to be derivative unless what was already mentioned you are drawing from myths, folklore etc. going upstream so to speak
18:27 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> just look online and you should find some attributions to use
18:27 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Guess I'm going to have to setup the new account's custom room in the create method, because apparently at_account_creation doesn't mean the new character is made yet either.
18:28 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> ultimately, if you are not making money on it and not altering the original work, you should be fine
18:28 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Yeah - I am making my own IP because I do want to make money, not on the mud but in other media connected by the same general ip 🙂
18:28 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Cause I do love me some Expanse or Firefly or what have you
18:29 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> However in the end, those things exist and I can get inspired without being derivative
18:29 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> For me personaly its preferable cause I can explore ideas freely - can still make references that the player will enjoy
18:29 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> nice.  I knew a guy back in the day that used his MUSH as a testbed for his writing and wrote a mildly successful science fiction book based on the MUSH
18:29 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> Otherspace I think it was called
18:30 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Ya - I get all hot and bothered when I think about that synergy ;p
18:30 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> Calm down Harold
18:31 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> I wanted to do some photography that was well I think in the US it would be called fantasy art or somesuch - using the hybrid techniques I know so want to themathically tie that in etc.
18:31 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> nice
18:31 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Cause in the end a short story about a man on a boat alone can be on the sea, in space, maybe he is not in a boat but a van in the middle of America etc.
18:31 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> The themes, what you want to say, all of that can fit I think into so many settings 🙂
18:32 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> indeed
18:32 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> so plan is a) make thing then b) tie it in somehow so whatever meager audience I get possibly gravitates to the other thing
18:32 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> sure
18:32 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> nudge nudge wink wink psst continue the journey over there, in that dark allewey, don't be scared
18:33 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> I mean... I /could/ rewrite my star wars game to be some other space fantasy setting of my own design.
18:44 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I like how it's coming to light that vaping is harmful and I even heard whisperings of it being banned.
18:44 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> There's no such thing as a free lunch.
18:46 DiscordBot     <Calades> It's not coming to light, lol. It's a bad batch case. People have been vaping for 15 years with no health problems. Suddenyl 6 people drop dead?
18:47 DiscordBot     <Calades> All evidence points to black market sales putting shit they shouldn't in cartridges that shouldn't be refilled.
18:47 DiscordBot     <Calades> You should also wonder why this is a big deal, when cigarettes take 1.2 million people a year.
18:47 DiscordBot     <Calades> Tobacco lobby, cough
18:47 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> cough cough indeed haha
18:48 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Wellness/video/potential-dangers-juul-ing-54904312
18:48 DiscordBot     <Calades> Yeah, I know what GMA says about it, lol.
18:48 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> If you can't trust Good Morning America, who can you trust?
18:48 DiscordBot     <Calades> I had to explain to my parents the actual science behind it so they'd stop freaking out.
18:48 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> They are legit scientists.
18:48 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Hehe.
18:50 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I'm glad I stopped smoking cigarettes, but sometimes I wish I had picked up vaping. I guess I'll just have to chew this sugar-free gum instead. This message was brought to you by Ice Breakers Ice Cubes Sugar Free Gum.
18:51 DiscordBot     <Calades> For the record, I'm not gonna say vaping is healthy for you either. Anything you breath into your lungs is gonna have some effect. But it's NOTHING compared to cigarettes.
18:52 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Cigarettes are particulary nasty in general, can smoke rollups etc.
18:52 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Maybe a pipe, become a wizard on the weekends
18:52 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Not a conjurer of cheap tricks at all mind you
18:52 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> You smoke fruit rollups?
18:53 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> I used to smoke and roll my own
18:53 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Oh, yeah.
18:53 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> If you get the good stuff its way less nasty, does not stink up the house as much etc.
18:53 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> Also the activity of rolling up is the break as much as the smoking
18:53 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I tried smoking various "legal herb alternatives", oh man, don't do that if you have a lot of allergies. It wasn't fun.
18:54 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> One time when I was 15 I snorted strawberry kool-aid powder.
18:54 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> That wasn't a good idea.
18:55 DiscordBot     <Calades> <--- Rolls his own, uses the Good Stuff. 😄
18:55 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> weed
18:55 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Heh.
18:55 DiscordBot     <Calades> Oh god, just don't smoke those weed alternatives in general. Asking for trouble.
18:55 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Oh I've tried those "spice pack" alternative synthetic marijuana.
18:55 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> used to snort koolaid
18:55 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> when I was like 12
18:56 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Oh good, I'm not the only idiot then.
18:56 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> course I was smoking weed at 12 as well
18:57 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I think I may have started a bit earlier than that. I started smoking cigarettes when I was 9.
18:57 DiscordBot     <BP-Santo> I still like to roll a ciggy up, just would need to build a little robot that would smoke it for me
18:58 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Looking back now, I wonder how crazy some adults were that they let children smoke weed in their house, I mean like provide it to them and smoke it with them.
19:04 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Halle Berry is in John Wick 3 and she looks like she's 24 years old, maximum. But she's 53. WTF?
19:04 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> https://i.imgur.com/OHRYWzN.png
19:04 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> you could bounce a quarter off her ass still too.  hot damn
19:16 DiscordBot     <Darren> Geez
19:17 DiscordBot     <Darren> My dad would give me cigs when I was 13   My friends thought he was the coolest dad in the world
19:32 DiscordBot     <Darren> @Kovitikus I hope you stopped smoking that synthetic crap, it's super addictive and very bad for you
19:35 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I only smoked it once or twice.
19:36 DiscordBot     <Darren> Good. I you gotta smoke, smoke the real stuff
19:37 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> My wife uses tobacco flavored vapes.
19:37 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> I hate it but she gets pissed when I bring it up
19:38 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I still can't get this custom home room thing to work. It makes the room, but it never sets it properly on the new character. https://pastebin.com/fPFnNuj1
19:38 DiscordBot     <Darren> One of my coworkers (who doesn't and has never smoked) has started vaping some kind of vitamin crap
19:38 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> My wife switched to vaping instead of smoking
19:38 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I wish the account module explained which step happens where, because I can't seem to figure out where to put anything.
19:39 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The vaping thing is becoming popular with people who've never had a reason to smoke, because... well do you even vape bro?
19:40 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> When my wife smoked cigarettes, she was taking so much time outside that I took up smoking a pipe to spend more time with her.  Not long after she stopped and went to vaping.
19:40 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> Maybe I should start vaping. 😛
19:46 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> question @Kovitikus , why separate rooms for each player?  Why not a single room for everyone?
19:47 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I thought you saw me explain this.
19:47 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> I've been in and out with work
19:48 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Each player will have an account room custom just for them where they can build their character and decorate. Like player housing. There will be a common area where players can meet up OOC.
19:48 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> ok and once they are done with chargen, what happens to the room?
19:49 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I'm trying to make the room during account creation. The room will be where they participate in chargen. Like a workshop for Dr. Frankenstein to create the bodies they will use in game.
19:49 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> As they progress, they gain more stuff to store in their workshop and allows them to further customize.
19:49 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> and once their 'bodies' are created?
19:50 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> ahh.
19:50 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The body is sent through a portal into the gameworld, where they can then possess it via a "play" command.
19:50 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> Sort of like a puppet closet
19:50 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> When the player's character dies, it is returned to the workshop where they can stuff and mount it to put on display for other players to view.
19:50 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yeah.
19:51 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> hmm.
19:51 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> and where is it all falling down?
19:51 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The account "character" that is created during account setup will be the player's "soul".
19:52 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Well, I tried to make the room in the create hook for the account, as I show in the pastebin.
19:52 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The room seems to get created just fine, but it won't get set to the player's home attribute.
19:52 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> And the player's new character, auto-generated by account creation, is sent to Limbo instead.
19:55 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> just for shits and giggles, create the character, then set it's home
19:56 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> is the Character being created okay?
19:58 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Yeah.
19:58 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> https://pastebin.com/bYyked5d
19:58 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> That's the character result from my custom create hook. Linked here:https://pastebin.com/fPFnNuj1
19:59 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The room gets created as well.
20:01 DiscordBot     <Darren> I am so tempted to trade my iPhone XR in on a Salaxy S10
20:01 DiscordBot     <Darren> Galaxy
20:01 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but it seems I broke my teleport command since Announce move from and Announce move to are both calling a custom function to deal with the way I have exits setup.
20:02 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> This is the output I get when I try to teleport any character to any room. https://i.imgur.com/D4nUQJt.png
20:03 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Well, it might be for rooms with no exits as well, since the room I created for new homes is just a single room in nowhere.
20:04 DiscordBot     <Darren> var_exit is a string not an object reference. Should be simple to fix
20:04 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> tel/quiet me to john's home worked.
20:04 evenniacode    [fork] Lisse24 forked evennia https://github.com/Lisse24/evennia
20:08 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Bah, whatever, I'll figure it out later. I'm probably doing something wrong and that is likely to do with where I'm creating and assigning this stuff. I should probably create the room in an earlier hook and then edit the account commands so that create passes the new room as home in the kwargs, which is how it's setup normally.
20:09 DiscordBot     <Darren> @Kovitikus  Is this more your style https://imgur.com/a/NaWO6L2
20:10 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> In here looks like where the start location and other attributes are set, before the character is actually created. https://github.com/evennia/evennia/blob/master/evennia/commands/default/account.py#L112
20:11 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Honestly Darren, I have no clue what I'm looking at in that screenshot.
20:11 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> The only part I understand is the Welcome to your new Evennia based game!
20:14 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> set the home value after the character create line. could be a bug in there
20:15 DiscordBot     <Kovitikus> Sure, I'll try that a bit later. Going to take a break for now, getting a headache. 🙂
20:16 DiscordBot     <grungies1138> understandable. 🙂
20:18 castlelore     so will the monitor inputfunc provide asynchronous notifications of modifications to the world
23:59 DiscordBot     <Thenomain> Regex Challenge (i.e., I can't figure it out) :: [<name>/]<type>[=<amt>]